To worry about Kate Forbes becoming first minister

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Abortion and LGBT rights have been something that have largely not been part of political debate for at least the last 10 years. Gay marriage was enacted in 2014 and was broadly supported. The last serious challenge to abortion rights was at the start of the coalition government with Nadine Dorries et all. However, broadly gay rights and abortion rights have been settled issues- it has almost been taboo for politicians to oppose them. Certainly, there hasn’t been any serious possibility over the last decade (at least) of any rowing back on abortion, gay marriage, gay adoption, divorce law etc.

However, it is clear that in the heart of hearts of Forbes she disagrees with all these things due to her beliefs as an evangelical Christian. By all accounts she was very competent as a minister and has been a good MSP. However, as first minister she will be a figurehead for Scotland as well as setting the tone for policy and political discourse. Also, unlike Rees-Mogg and DUP types, Kate Forbes seems like an otherwise sensible, competent, ‘normal’ politician.

My concern is Forbes being the leader of Scotland could normalise her views on these issues. While I don’t believe abortion or gay marriage face immediate threat, if it’s brought into mainstream politics it will become a party political issue and may well shift public opinion, especially given the current culture war. Politicians, journalists, activists and others who have held these views quietly may be emboldened to launch a new campaign against abortion, LGBT rights or some other issue. I don’t know this would necessarily just be limited to Scotland as Nicola Sturgeon and her policies had a very high profile in the rest of the UK and influenced policy.

Aibu to worry about Kate Forbes becoming SNP leader and first minister?

Given most of this detail is coming from Alex Neil who has an axe to grind - no, I don’t think a minister missing a vote that is going to be easily won anyway is unusual.

But in any event - this is all whataboutery.

Im not sure on what basis you think any of this is an argument in support of a confirmed opponent of gay rights. Even if your account of Yousaf’s motivations were right, it would still not explain why any of us should be comfortable with someone we know to hold homophobic views as First Minister.

generally Muslims in the UK are more conservative than Christians, surveys show that just over 50% of muslims would like all homosexuality to be illegal,
it is highly likely that Humza was under pressure from the mosque,

It’s not. Alex Neil may have said Humza is not telling the truth but as per the extract from the Herald the information in the screenshot has come from Humza’s own diary records. It’s not my account, it’s the account published by a newspaper. I’m sure if it were inaccurate - and it was printed three days ago - action would have been taken by now in relation to the content. If it’s whataboutery its whataboutery prompted by you, you should refresh your memory regarding your previous posts. Your refusal to see what’s plainly in front of your face - that Humza is likely as much of a homophobe as Kate Forde, but he’s also lied about it - is genuinely amazing to me.

And ps what’s unusual is that he was told to be there, went out of his way to make sure he wasn’t and has since lied about it. That’s all highly unusual.

Are those objecting to Kate Forbes' view saying that she should be allowed to stand in the election for SNP leader or First minister?

Even if your account of Yousaf’s motivations were right, it would still not explain why any of us should be comfortable with someone we know to hold homophobic views as First Minister.

Does not believe in gay marriage but would not object to a civil union
v lesbians can have dicks and those who object are sexual racists ummmm.

Bit like Hobson's choice isn't it? Homophobia in any form is wrong but the new homophobia promoted by Yousaf in his support of the Gender Bill is particularly vile and extreme.

Given that KF is unlikely to put me in a rape crisis centre with a man who claims womanly feels as a woman I know who I'd go for.

Given that KF is likely to exercise caution with transing the gay and / or autistic/ other vulnerable kids I know who I'd rather go for.

Oh and not to mention the fact that if eyeroll is right (evidence points that way) Yousaf is a proven liar as opposed to KF who actually is brave enough to not lie and has also stated defends the rights of LGBT+ people to live “free of harassment, fear and prejudice" and has made it clear that she would have no intention to roll back the laws on gay marriage.

Your case just doesn’t add up. If Yousaf was voting (or not voting) because of his faith or due to pressure, then he simply wouldn’t have voted at any stage. He wouldn’t have been out on the media supporting marriage equality.

There is nothing in his record at all that suggests he votes based on religious views, and nothing in his personal views that indicates he holds Kate Forbes homophobic views. In fact I would say that his willingness to advocate for and vote for policies in the face of religious opposition speaks well of him.

But you are so desperate to dodge discussion of Kate Forbes’ homophobia that you need to constantly pretend that their views are the same. For Yousaf that is based on supposition on your part. For Forbes we know she has homophobic views because she told us so.

It adds up because he does what suits him. He votes in the early stages to get the credit for being a progressive member of society but ducks out at the crucial vote to avoid criticism from fellow Muslims and others who do not support gay marriage. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. It’s quite simple. I’m not pretending anything. I find it bizarre in the extreme that you continue to cling to a man who denies any homophobia but specifically makes arrangements to avoid a vote he was told to attend when it would bring that legislation in to law and then lies about it, repeatedly. Yet you still see him as a more favourable candidate than a woman who says I don’t agree with gay marriage on religious grounds but I don’t think the law on gay marriage should be changed. Genuinely bizarre position from you. How anyone can take anything the man says seriously is beyond me, he blows with the wind. If you think he is a true ally of gay people you need to wise up.

I think you’ll find most SNP members will see through his lies and vote elsewhere. Then again I have little faith in anyone that chooses to align themselves with nationalism.

I’m not clinging to anyone. I’m simply pointing out the holes in your claim. It simply doesn’t make sense that he’s willing to go against Islamic teaching in multiple ways - in his votes, in his public campaigning, in his statements of his views - and yet highly selectively you think on this one occasion 9 years ago he bowed to pressure to toe the Islamic line. That just doesn’t stack up.

Also no matter how much you repeat it - a stage 3 vote is no more or less crucial than a stage 1 vote. Especially here since the vote was going to sail through.

But keep going trying to deflect from Kate Forbes admitted homophobic views. A perfect illustration of why queer people should well be worried about a Kate Forbes win.

But keep going trying to deflect from Kate Forbes admitted homophobic views. A perfect illustration of why queer people should well be worried about a Kate Forbes win

Well 'queer' people might but your common or garden lesbians or gay men might prefer Kate's 'homophobia' to that of the genderists who think that sex doesn't exist or matter.

You keep bringing up Humza’s Islamic faith. I haven’t said he is homophobic because he is a Muslim. I have simply pointed out he has a problem with telling the truth and has tried to ride two horses at the same time.
He was told to be at the vote by the whip. You keep ignoring that. He didn’t make arrangements to avoid being there until after he was told he had to be there.
Gay people deserve better than being a hobby horse for the ambitious to boost their credentials. Then again David Cameron only introduced gay marriage legislation to make himself look like less of a traditional Tory. I can see quite plainly facts don’t fit your narrative.

Still deflecting from Kate Forbes homophobia.

Well this ‘common or garden’ lesbian doesn’t want a First Minister in Scotland who thinks she should not be allowed to get married!

You do make me laugh sometimes

But she's not going to be repealing any laws on that is she, so what are you worried about?

She has honestly answered questions, more than you can say for Yousaf.

I'd be more worried about the proven liar who thinks lesbians can have dicks than someone who has been honest about their religious beliefs whilst confirming they have no intention of changing the current legal position.

I understand that you are saying you don't want Kate Forbes to be elected which is of course your right and choice but do you agree that she has a right to stand and that she has a right to her hold her views.

That's how I see it. Sturgeon was so pro trans and LGBT it was insane. I'm not so sure we have seen the back of her though. Her husband, Peter Murrell, is still CEO of the SNP so she can wield undue influence from the back room. The party has already said they will continue with her Gender reforms.How easy will it be for a.new FM to stand up to the Murrells?
.

My understanding is Murrell is under investigation for serious financial irregularities. Apparently there is a lot more to come out about it, going by reputable twitter sources. He is on his road out too.

I think we need a bit of balance to counteract the madness in society today. Someone like Kate Forbes would most likely provide that level of respite and much needed push back

Alastair Campbell was very careful to avoid journalists' questions to his boss about religion.

Yes and neither abortion nor gay marriage were even on the agenda in 1997. Just good old English anti catholic prejudice, oops not supposed to mention that!!

Of course. No one has said homophobes should be banned from running for election.

I think we just have to leave it for the people in this country to decide, someone who unusually for a politician made their views very clear knowing how they might have been viewed by some is in my view to be applauded. As I have said before someone with these views isn't necessarily homophobic , but of course people are entitled to their opinion. Courtesy and respect of others views is so important.

That's how I see it. Sturgeon was so pro trans and LGBT it was insane.**

Sturgeon was pro - trans. She didn't really give much of a shit about the negative impact of the Gender Bill on homosexuals. She didn't listen to groups talking to her about this or the impact on women generally.

Or the fact that children who are likely to be gay are being transitioning as under the new religion trans is preferable to gay.

I totally disagree with @TeaKlaxon who claims that they wouldn't want KF because of her 'homophobic ideas'. Any one supporting the Gender Bill has homophobic ideas. Lesbians do not have penises.