Mocking Christianity

[Ihatepcos]

I am so sick of people thinking it's okay to ridicule Catholicism and Christianity. This is especially apparent on Mumsnet. Every time there's a thread about religion I can't even read the replies because they're so awful.

The same doesn't seem to apply to the Muslim, Jewish, Hindu faiths etc.

If you don't believe in God that is your choice. But purposely mocking someone's faith and calling it a load of bullshit (and worse) is just not acceptable. So many people turn to faith to help them through extremely tough times in life and you are mocking the only thing that is keeping them going.

Not sure why I've been singled out here. Not that it bothers me.

I'd be fascinated to know why it matters and what your opinion would be depending on the answers that I am going to ask you to guess.

@thehorsehasnowbolted if you had read the full thread, you would know that virtually all of us atheist posters on it have differentiated between mocking individual believers (not acceptable behaviour) and mocking/criticising religious organisations (absolutely acceptable, freedom of speech, we are also allowed to mock political parties/,movements).

Religion is only a protected characteristic in the sense that you are not allowed to discriminate against someone on the grounds of their faith (or their sexuality, come to that!). Beyond that there is no right to never be offended.

Well, of course they would spout this nonesense based on dubious 'research' funded by those with a vested interest. The media are part of the problem (it's not only HR it seems)

Interesting, as your post was also nonsensical.

@Notwavingbutsignalling I'm not sure I understand the questions you've asked @SerendipityJane . Personally I couldn't care less what the religious affiliation of the professional whose services I require is - as long as they deliver those services in line with the rules of their profession and without discriminating against anyone. If I needed an operation and the only surgeon available was one who refused to operate on LGBT people then I'd struggle, but in the real world that scenario would not materialise as such a person would be struck off.

No mocking is acceptable (to the person or the belief)

Beyond that there is no right to never be offended

Do you also think that people with other protected characteristics lack the right to never be offended? Because that's not what's happening in practice in these new Dark Ages, mind you

@thehorsehasnowbolted if no mockery is acceptable, we are living in a dictatorship. Is that what you want?

My stance that nobody has the right not to be offended extends across the full spectrum of protected characteristics, by the way. It is never acceptable to mock an individual for being gay, black, religious - whatever. It's ill mannered and anyone who does it is lacking in morals.

It is always acceptable to mock organisations - whether that be Stonewall, a religious organisation of any denomination, or Black Lives Matter. All organisations should be subject to scrutiny and criticism. Freedom of speech matters.

You refer to this day and age as a new Dark Ages - what age would you like to go back to then? Do you want homosexuality to be illegal again? Bring back blasphemy laws and prosecute people? Allow discrimination on the grounds of ethnicity, sex, sexuality etc. in the workplace and in housing? What does your Golden Age look like?

Religion in general (not only Christianity) is seen as a threat by those who want to disrupt (and destroy) society and the world we live in today

Why do they want to do that?

'Atheists' that go on about their lack of belief in anything as if it were a badge of honour are contemptible

Why the inverted commas?

More importantly, what makes you think that atheists don't believe in anything?

I read the independent article that talks of intelligence levels and I wonder if it is related to access to education?

I do think there is an issue here regarding education levels and if we think on an international level, we have to acknowledge that many areas don’t have the same infrastructure we have. There are huge problems with literacy levels in parts of the world - the broad strokes of religion can give something there that helps people ( not always and yes, it can be detrimental when the issue is poverty) but I can only talk about my family’s experience and how the Church helped my widowed grandmother (in a poor country).

You refer to this day and age as a new Dark Ages - what age would you like to go back to then? Do you want homosexuality to be illegal again? Bring back blasphemy laws and prosecute people? Allow discrimination on the grounds of ethnicity, sex, sexuality etc. in the workplace and in housing? What does your Golden Age look like?

If you think that nowadays we are wiser and living in better times than say 20 or 30 years ago, you are deluded

Why the inverted commas?

More importantly, what makes you think that atheists don't believe in anything?

The inverted commas are precisely because atheists do have beliefs, they have their own religion or cult, even if they don't realise

they have their own religion or cult, even if they don't realise

😂demons again?! 😅

It's news to me that veganism has caused as much harm as religion.

Explain...

Well, before you do, let's just define 'religion'...

Religion is belief in a god or gods and the activities that are connected with this belief, such as praying or worshipping in a building such as a church or temple.

Collins Dictionary

the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship

Cambridge Dictionary

...assuming that you're not using it in the vernacular sense of 'Manchester United is a religion to Dave...'

So, how do atheists have a religion that they don't realise?

@thehorsehasnowbolted well, as you may remember from our previous encounters, I am in my 50s so I have clear memories of life was like 20/30 years ago.

We didn't have marriage equality. The UK still had section 28 in place, a filthy piece of legislation if ever there was one. There were no laws to protect women from stalkers. The age of consent between homosexual and heterosexual people was different. Until 1992, raping your wife was legal (OK, so that's 31 years).

What would you say is so much worse these days? We have problems, but let's put down the rose tinted specs and admit that they are different problems, and that others have been resolved or improved.

We still have a lot of work to do on population control, preserving our planet, housing and decent jobs for our young people, making sure women's health is taken seriously by the medical profession, discrimination against pregnant women in the workplace - oh, but maybe those aren't things you think we need, given that they're a bit 'woke'?

As for your POV on atheism - what is cult like about it? What do you think atheists believe or do not believe? It's hard to respond to your point unless you clarify your position.

It's fairly common amongst religious people to not believe in atheism

Ive had lots of conversations with religious people before and the upshot of it amounts to you do really believe, you're just being awkward

@Botw1 this is one of the problems I have with religious people demanding we respect their faith - so many of them refuse to respect mine (and yes, atheism is a faith position because we cannot prove that God does not exist).

Don't really care what anyone else thinks, tbh.. I have a chat with God every morning, that's my business - I don't even include the church because it's difficult to get to, I toddle along every Christmas for the childrens' service. I don't ask friends what religion they are. Most of my neighbours are Muslim. We're all just kind to each other as fellow humans!

atheists do have beliefs, they have their own religion or cult, even if they don't realise

No. Atheism is the absence of belief in a god or gods. That's it. Some atheists may consider their atheism an important part of their identity or values (rather than just a fact that they happen not to believe in a god), but that still doesn't make their atheism 'a religion' or 'a cult'.

OED definition of a religion: 'Action or conduct indicating belief in, obedience to, and reverence for a god, gods, or similar superhuman power; the performance of religious rites or observances.'

Atheists by definition do not have a religion. As for a cult... that's an even more ridiculous suggestion.

@pointythings

Atheism is not faith.

It is the absence of faith

God existing is not the default position to be proven or disproven

No one asks for proof Zeus doesn't exist. Or fairies

Whats that quote? Atheists are just atheist about 1 more god than Christians

@Botw1 that's a fair enough definition, but since I can't prove that there is no God, I'm in one sense in the same boat as the believers are. I just don't go through life bothering too much about it.

I'm definitely not part of a great atheist cult going round people's houses knocking on door and offering them copies of the month's edition of 'Absence Magazine'. I have a life.

If you think proving god doesn't exist is important then Id say you were agnostic rather than atheist

@Botw1 I don't think it's important at all - it's the believers who think atheists should prove that God doesn't exist. I just like to point out to them that it cuts both ways.

@pointythings

No that presumes the default is a god existing. It isn't

You can't prove or disprove an absence. So the burden of proof is on the believer.

None of that man's atheism is faith. It's not.

Faith and love are not really about evidence by their very nature, it is as meaningful to demand evidence justifying their love for another human being as their love for God, and proof denies faith.

There is evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ and the events associated with Him, that is multiple witness testimonies and corroborating statements. Whether you believe that evidence is a matter for yourselves, but you may in that case have to question a number of other things you believe to be true because they were proven on the same basis. Again, however, it is a conversation for you to have with someone whose position is not one of faith.

Billions of people communicate each day with God, observe or await His responses, and act based on His commands. On this basis God is, objectively speaking, more of a real entity in the world than any individual human being posting in this thread.

Faith and intellect are intertwined for many of us. If your belief is that religion is only for lesser intellects than your own, who have examined life less thoroughly than you have, well in the first you cannot be very well read, that's for sure. In the second place, it is such a glaringly obvious position of ignorance that you should give your head a wobble and consider not saying it any more for your own sake, because let's face it, you aren't more intelligent than every religious person who ever lived - none of us is.

@ConcordeOoter I hope you're charging for that word salad, could make you a fortune with the shortages.

I am more intelligent than many people. I am also less intelligent than many people. So not sure what point you're trying to make here, but if it's 'religious people know better' then you've not made it.