Mocking Christianity

[Ihatepcos]

I am so sick of people thinking it's okay to ridicule Catholicism and Christianity. This is especially apparent on Mumsnet. Every time there's a thread about religion I can't even read the replies because they're so awful.

The same doesn't seem to apply to the Muslim, Jewish, Hindu faiths etc.

If you don't believe in God that is your choice. But purposely mocking someone's faith and calling it a load of bullshit (and worse) is just not acceptable. So many people turn to faith to help them through extremely tough times in life and you are mocking the only thing that is keeping them going.

Riiiiiight. So we shouldn't be allowed to post criticism of organised religion. Got it. Any other freedoms of speech you want to remove while you're at it?

Would you think it was ok to criticise an entire race? Or a gender? Or a sex?Probably not? So it shouldn’t really be ok to make a generalisation criticising an entire religion?

Nice false equivalence there. You're comparing traits you cannot change to something you absolutely can, and the criticism (as has been explained on here ad nauseam) is intended for the religious organisation and the things it is responsible for, not its adherents (though to be fair if confronted by someone who told me they genuinely supported the persecution, torture and in some cases murder of LGBT people in the name of God I would politely tell them that I did not think their morals were very good).

Criticising a religious organisation is equivalent to criticising a political party. Do you have a problem with that?

Would you think it was ok to criticise an entire race? Or a gender? Or a sex?
Probably not? So it shouldn’t really be ok to make a generalisation criticising an
entire religion?

People can't chose their race or sex. But they can chose their religion. In fact one of the reasons we have religious bigotry is entirely because people cam choose their religion. With the persecutors taking the view that others have made the wrong choice.

Anyone else want to point out that we don't treat fish as birds ?

There’s so many questions out there. I can remember watching The Others where the people we thought were being haunted were actually the ghosts.

I’ve heard another theory about aliens not being from other planets but our plant on a different plane.

I guess we will never know the waking of out existence but it’s fun thinking about it.

maybe “God” is actually a succession of computer programmers, neither us nor society is getting better or evolving, he’s just getting better at playing the game.

Ultimately we can only work with what we have - science. And that what's distinguishes it from religion which is the art of working with what we don't have.

If it's any consolation to folk of faith, science has a long and quietly hidden history of quashing "batshit" ideas only to have to admit them later. Possibly centuries on. The adage of Arthur C. Clarke is as true now as when first penned:

"If a respected and famous scientist says something is possible, they are most likely right If a respected and famous scientist says something is impossible, they are likely wrong"

I'm old enough to remember being bought up with aether taught as a quaint "bless" footnote in Maxwells time. Which means I was also awake enough to realise the growing concept of "something that makes space" was pretty much that idea reborn.

In general faithy folk - certainly Xtian types - in the UK have a damn good deal of it. They have one day of the week that is special, and two huge festivals the rest of the country puts up with. Something I am reminded of when I can't get a day off because it's the quirk of quark, or some other made up celebration.

In fact the more Christians whinge, them more it reminds me of what elements of UK society are still in hock to them and where we need to continue removing them.

"If a respected and famous scientist says something is possible, they are most likely right If a respected and famous scientist says something is impossible, they are likely wrong"

I suspect this reflected Clarke’s world of everything is possible and nothing is impossible.

I guess certainty is sin- any person of faith who has certainty is no longer a person applying himself to the great Mystery. They consider themselves omniscient, they consider themselves GoD - surely a blasphemy in many religions. God is unknowable and ineffable.

they can never prove the existence of God

Science can never disprove the existence of God. Even if they find a natural explanation for every single phenomena in the universe, they can never exclude the possibility a God created the illusion of those explanations, or created the rules science discovers.

if you can never prove or disprove the existence of God (and I use the term here to describe any supreme supernatural entity) then people can only ever go by their subjective opinions and experience. There is no spiritual or scientific advantage in trying to persuade anyone else of your own position. To do so is just an inappropriate I expression of Ego

they can never prove the existence of God

You see, I disagree with that. It should be very possible to prove the existence of God. He just has to turn up! Arrive in a shower of light, perform a few miracles, explain exactly why he hates homosexuals, and you've proven that God exists. Christians who say you can't prove that God exists are ignoring the fact that they believe that Jesus walked around and did exactly that!

In what way is it “hilariously incorrect”

Personally I’d prefer religion was not integrated into school. I don't really want my kids to join a daily act of worship and have other adults telling them about myths and legends as if they are real. I could ask for them to be excluded from assembly but they want to be with their friends and I’m not ok with the idea of them being excluded from a school activity due to my atheism. I also don’t believe we should have religious schools that are in any way publicly funded.

I wouldn’t generally discuss religion in real life and most people I’m friends with are not religious but if I did I would be comfortable to say I think of Christianity in the same way I do Greek/Roman gods, Santa Claus and Leprechauns and I don’t think people having those beliefs should have any real influence on political policy. If someone said you should allow/not allow something because the little green men in their head say so you’d think they needed mental health help. I struggle with why people who do truly truly believe in god can’t perceive that they appear similarly delusional to people who don’t. I think a lot of people take comfort in the routine of religion but I’m less convinced large numbers really really believe there is actually a god.

Well if Jesus proved God exists why is it not beyond all reasonable doubt?

if someone appeared today said “I’m God” healed a few sick people etc, would you believe God existed or would you believe it a sham? Would Christian’s all be certain this was God not the devil?

@whatkatydid2013
If that's how you feel about faith schools, why on earth would you send your child to one - unless you had literally no choice (which may be the case, of course)?

Re your last point about people liking the routine of religion but not really believing in God, I'd be amazed if that's true. I'd expect it to be, if anything, the other way around.

And what is mockery? The attached photo represents an event in the Bible (and other faiths which predate the bible). It quotes from the Bible (John 4:8)

Now if Christian’s are offended - why? Is it because someone has pointed out something which makes them question themselves?

@Nonicknamesleft there are lots of reasons for sending a child to a faith school. Sometimes it is a matter of not having a choice; your catchment primary is C of E VA and that's your lot. Sometimes it's because the faith school is the better fir for your child, as it was for us. There are two primaries in our little town. One is excellent in supporting children with SEN, the other (the faith school) is less good with the SEN (though not bad) but excellent at supporting and encouraging children who are highly academic. We picked that one based on our DDs' personalities, traits and development. Fortunately we were lucky in that at the time there was no shortage of places; I was completely honest about our non churchgoing status, my husband's opposition to organised religion and my atheism.

The school was right for our DC and we let the religious content happen because we felt we had no right to raise our kids atheist any more than we had to raise them religious. If faith 'stuck', that would be fine. If not, also fine. We talked about things a lot (still do) and the DC are both atheists now, but they've had every opportunity to make their own way there.

Personally I’d prefer religion was not integrated into school. I don't really want my kids to join a daily act of worship and have other adults telling them about myths and legends as if they are real

This is what my child's primary was like too. It wasn't a faith school but a bog standard council primary. It is apparently the law for all schools to include worship of a wholly or broadly Christian character. Some heads follow this more to the letter than others. We complained to no avail.

I see it as harrassment to inflict such narrow-minded views on impressionable minds. Luckily my daughter was raised to think for herself.

It's something the humanists have been campaigning to remove for years:

humanists.uk/education/parents/collective-worship-and-school-assemblies-your-rights/

Oh god not the 'choice' nonsense again.

When they're a third of all schools, how much 'choice' do you think really exists for a lot of people?

The 'choices' I had were realistically between several different faith schools.

Plus also as the PPs have said - daily act of worship is required of all schools, so there's zero
choice there.

@pointythings Yes, I guessed that might be the situation for some people. We also didn't have much choice if we were at all bothered by the quality of our children's secondary education, and being Christians, that side of things was welcome.

From what I can tell, the faith thing doesn't seem to be rammed down the kids' throats at all and on the whole, people of all faiths and none value the vibe it gives the school. One of my three daughters is an atheist, which is of course completely her choice.

What you describe about your situation shows real integrity about making the right choice for your children and keeping an open mind about faith. I think that's the best anyone could do.

Sorry about the enormous paragraph breaks. ⬆Phone misbehaving.

Apologies for my intemperate response - it was out of proportion to your post, @Nonicknamesleft. I've been on the receiving end of 'just send your kids somewhere else' one too many times but that wasn't quite what you were saying.

Im with the PP though - I object to state funding for any faith-specific schools and particularly faith admissions, whether or not my kids are affected.

any faith-specific schools

That's basically all state schools - unfortunately.

Yep. Though degrees of badness.

EG at my kids' CofE primary there would be no way they could be 'excused' or taken out of any Christian indoctrination aspects of their school life. It's very integrated.

I don’t but there are no primary schools in the U.K. where children are not expected to take part in a daily collective act of worship. It’s part of the curriculum.

I'm quite angry that some posters on here have the absolute audacity and cloth-eared arrogance to complain about our freedom-of-speech right to mock christianity; a faith as ridiculous as any other.

When ex-friends informed me I was possessed by demons for not believing anymore, that told me everything I needed to know about these bunch of idiots.

I'm with the humanists on the issue of Christian worship in schools though. The words 'compulsory' and 'worship' do not belong in the same sentence in a supposedly free country. I went to a Catholic primary school in the Netherlands (because it was Montessori and I had to be moved from my nearest primary as they would not accept I was a fluent reader). They had assemblies, but they were not religious at all. Allowance was made in the curriculum for First Communion and Confirmation, but every effort was made for children who were not RC to not feel excluded.

All state funded schools should be fully secular and should only teach about relgion. Fortunately the primary my DC went to was very light touch about the faith stuff and gave my DC a solid understanding of other faiths. (Atheism didn't come up until secondary school, but fair enough)

How many schools actually do this? My daughters' primary school didn't (with a privately v committed Christian head), nor the ones they attended when we lived elsewhere, and one of those was a church school.

Between them, they are now at two different CofE state secondary schools, and the so called Act of Worship is a weekly event.