9 year old daughter’s behaviour

[Childbeingreallybold]

I don’t know what to do with my 9 year old daughter. She behaves perfectly outside of the home.
At home her behaviour is unmanageable. She punches and kicks her sister, me and my husband. Screams. Tells us to shut up. Calls her sister names.
We take TV time away but it seems to make no difference.
This is going on a long time.
I have a family party this weekend and I intended to travel with her and her sister. My husband can’t come because he’ll have to work. I have said she isn’t coming after a bad outburst last night.
I feel like she needs a real consequence. Is it the right thing to do?
she’ll be very sad about not coming. When she’s not misbehaving she’s a fantastic loving little girl. But we need to deal with this.

@GUIs She’s always been explosive. Tantrums were more frequent and probably worse in ways for years.
But now that she’s bigger hitting is serious

@QueenCamilla yes. I think you’re right.

@UniversalTruth thank you

This sounds like all of the problems could lie within this sentence....

I know she will expect us to relent on this

Why will she expect you to relent? There's only 1 reason she would expect that. I actually know a 10 year old who is a total handful at home, rules the roost, has no consequences or telling off for anything, causes most arguments amongst the parents. A delight at school. The bold sentence above is also their problem with her.

Are you sure she doesn't have SEN. My DD was like this and has since been diagnosed with ADHD and is much better now that she is in medication.

Children often cannot tell people what is wrong.
Family dynamics can impact on behaviour. An incident years ago might have triggered her anger. How was/is her sister towards her ?

That she is good outside but not at home made me think the issues are within home.

I think a conversation with a professional is needed if they have been going on from such a young age.

@Danneigh because I’ve said things like this before and then felt like it was too harsh.
I can see I need to carry on through now.
she’s just a fantastic kid otherwise.

@Snaketime I really don’t think so. But maybe I’m wrong

Thanks @guis. I think I’m going to try this weekend and go from there.

Follow through with not taking her.
My now adult child said to me...I always knew your threats were empty and could get away with bad behaviour, but not with Dad.

Exactly. So she's playing you because she knows she can. She knows you don't mean what you say. So instead of punishing in haste, give her a warning, tell her if you do X then Y will happen. And stick to it. She will soon realise she doesn't rule you anymore.

And if you genuinely do that and stick to it and it doesn't work, then maybe there is something more deep-rooted that you're not aware of.

DD has been like this her whole life. 9 was a particularly bad year (after things had been improving age 7/8). I think it was hormones. This year (year 5, turning 10) has been so, so much better.

We did have a big showdown around last June where we said she couldn’t go to a friend’s party, and stuck to it. I don’t know if that helped turn her behaviour around or if it was just getting older. But yes I think in your shoes I would follow through and not allow her to attend.

my DD does have SN by the way, she is academic but her SN affects her ability to regulate her behaviour/emotions. We still have consequences, SN does not mean she can behave terribly. But we pick our battles and our moments and we try to be understanding of what has triggered the rage.

I would see it as can she trust you to do what you say you will good or bad. I’ve been guilty of making empty threats but recently has to tighten up and follow through as DD is starting to ignore anything I say. She knows theres a good chance nothing will happen regardless of what she does. I’m seeing it as not making a liar of myself and also her knowing that when I say something I am telling her the truth, she can trust my word.

I think there could be any number of issues here but agree with PP that you need a much firmer line re the hitting etc and so yes, missing the family party is not unreasonable. Especially if you have regularly backtracked on consequences int he past.

When DS was going through a difficult phase a while ago, I realised I couldn't do consequences on the fly. I'd either make them too harsh or too light or whatever so I had to stop and think about what the issues were then I calmly told him what th econsequences would be for x or y behaviour and then, when that happened, consequences were easily and calmly implemented. It did help.

I'd also say that if she's struggling to control herself at home you should be looking at some additional or better or different solutions. It could be SEN and she's masking at school so lashing out at home. It could just be that she has some anger issues and needs help to learn how to process those. I'd consider talking to an educational psychologist to start with. And agree with other PP - one sport, three times a week is great, but i might be worth looking at some other options. Martial arts are great and also often include an element of discipline to them. Both my DS and a friend's DD who have struggled socially at times have benefited from music/theatre/dance clubs, even if only for a short time so that might be something to look into as well.

With hormones it could also be that you need to think about different food issues for a while. Around that age we had to really focus on giving DS a lot of food, which meant a lt of effort to mean e got a lot of food but without excessive calories. Lots of meals with high proportion of vegetables, snacks as soon as he got home etc.

@Noicant @catandcoffee @minipie @Danneigh
I think this advice is what I need to do. And just do it. I have definitely not gone through with things before and now I feels like she thinks/knows she can do anything.

Thank you

This is really helpful. Thank you

It's not necessarily a home problem if they kick off at home. Maybe they have been masking in school and can no longer cope. Like taking the lid off a shaken pop bottle.

Could these tantrums she's been having for years be autistic meltdowns?

What's she like with routine?
Eat stuff in the same order, have to get ready the same way, really stroppy if you do something unexpected or change the routine.

Any sensory issues?
Hand dryers, always leaning on you, doesn't like light touch, seeks out food,

Social issues?

Look up both autism and ADHD in girls. See if any of that is familiar.

@Childbeingreallybold good luck OP, you sound like a lovely Mum. Don't be questioning yourself if you feel bad that you've punished her. She will thank you in the long run.

I don’t think she has any additional needs. Appears to be quite academic

You can be extremely academic and also have additional needs

I know she will expect us to relent on this

One of best bits of parenting advice I was given was when issuing ultimatums/consequences to a child always make sure it’s something you will actually do and then carry it out. I am not saying you do this OP, but so many parents come up with very harsh or unenforceable consequences and the child knows the parents will back down.
My eldest is 13 now and it’s very rare I actually have to act on the consequence now because he knows it will happen. His Achilles heel is Wi-Fi even thoughts of no Wi-Fi terrifies him.
I would be inclined to be open and honest with her and say you don’t want to carry out punishments as you love her, but behaviour such as hitting is not acceptable and has to stop and that there has to be consequences.
When DS was diagnosed with ASD we had a workshop where they said to view bad behaviour as a symptom. When it happens you need to look for the cause and address the cause. I think this advice can apply to all children.
Best of luck OP.

It’s harsh but I think you have done well here OP. You are obviously at the end of your tether with her vile behaviour. You can say it along the lines of ‘if you behave like that at home with us and your sister, how can I trust you not to do it with the whole family there’. She’s 9, not 2, she will get the message.

I would be very honest with her. I’d tell her you feel sad because you’d really love her to come to the party but as her mum you need to help her to stop using violence. Make sure she knows you love her and her behaviour is the problem not her. Lots of compliments and positive praise with clear, firm boundaries. If there is no improvement I would talk to the school about SEN and to SS about parenting classes.

This is a child who does not experience a predictable and reliable parent. She knows that no matter what she does her mum will not follow through with sanctions and consquences. She has no scaffolding under her feet.

She may or may not have diagnoses of disorders, but ultimately this is not rocket science. Children who dont experience a strong, reliable authority figure will feel and behave in an out of control manner, this is what she is expressing.

Sorry not responding directly. But I really appreciate all the excellent advice. I can see that following though here - particularly given prior history of not doing that - is necessary.
I will follow though this time and I know she’ll be upset but I feel more confident that it’s the best course.

If consequences aren’t working, you need to go a bit deeper into the behaviour rather than upping the consequences.

look at the triggers for the behaviours, the settings, what’s going on before the explosions?

she may need structured transition/downtime after school if she’s poured a lot of energy into impulse control.

take a close look at sibling dynamics. Sometimes the triggers are subtle and invisible (my dd was setting off my ds with a snarky look)

google “emotional regulation” for some great resources on building skills