My DS is obsessed with numbers

[Driedlavender]

He turned 4 in October.
I often feel embarrassed telling people or people finding out as I feel they may think it’s bragging or something.

There’s no other way to describe his connection with numbers, he absolutely loves them. He wants to know the biggest numbers in the world, he’s even talking about minus numbers now.
He can add and multiply in his head, he doubles numbers constantly and asks us to check on our phone calculator whether his answer is correct.
He loves numberblocks the CBeebies programme and watches it often.
Numbers make him happy.

Alongside that, he can read, they send home the Biff and Chip books and he reads then without any hesitation.
He also wants to know the specific names of colours, for example magenta.
For a while he wanted to know about the periodic table and the human body…it’s like he wants to learn constantly and his brain never rests.

His speech is fine, but to get him on a subject other than what he’s currently focused on is a struggle at times. He even says things like “But why can’t I talk about numbers, I want to talk about them all the time”. So he’s totally aware he’s doing it, he just wants to continue.

I have noticed it causing problems with social engagement with other children of his own age. He finds adults to speak to, as he wants to ask them questions about numbers and whatever else he’s interested in at the time (mostly numbers).
He asks the age of everyone we meet, adults usually humour him and tell him their age, then he’ll say how many years until you are … and then ask them to work it out, at which point they look at me and smile, some will continue to answer but some just aren’t interested which is obviously fair enough!

He’s a very friendly, sweet, confident and at times very funny boy, but I don’t know if we’re looking at something more e.g. ASD. DP (his dad) who is very similar in lots of ways (maths and science brain) thinks he’s just clever and people don’t need a label all the time , in his words.

If you got this far, thank you so much for reading.

One of my brothers was similar as a child.
We always said he was passionate about numbers, rather than obsessed- mostly just because it sounded nicer to us.
He has always been passionate about different things, numbers- especially weights and measures, body systems, medieval siege weapons, military submarines and boats, he taught himself latin at one point.
He did well at school and has good, similarly nerdy and passionate, friends as an adult

My dd was like this. She has a masters in maths and is a secondary school head of maths now.

Me too.
I'd just chat to him about how people like it when you ask and talk about their interests too. Very common for a 4 year old not to quite grasp this! For most it's Peppa pig and the likes. But so what if it's numbers?

My brother was like this and he's an accountant now. Maybe your DS will be similar!

But that's because of a speech delay, potentially other developmentally delays too.
Most developmentally average 3 year olds have interests they'd love to tell you about! This can variate a lot.
I've known a few who can tell me about and recognise all sorts of dinosaurs. Way beyond what I know, lol.
Definitely not unusual for a 3 year old to have 1 or more areas they can tell you about in great detail. Sometimes even surpassing some adults knowledge in particular fields.
Could br cube numbers or Asian Hornets, why not!

My ds is autistic, he is 4 1/2 and exactly the same as your son. He does his; times tables, can add two double figures together, can take away and read far above the level of his peers, in fact my dd is 8 and he’s better at math than her. He does have a speech delay though and his interests do stop him from focusing on other tasks and from playing with and forming bonds with other children. He is absolutely wonderful and I am proud and brag unapologetically about how intelligent he is all of the time but he does need the support in other areas of his life and I’m glad that he receives that.

My DS didn't walk until he was 18 months old but he could read numbers at 15 months. He would turn pages in a book and say the page number correctly - and not just in order. We got him a little VTech computer when he was one and a half for Christmas and it would say press the letter H... he was sat there one evening and did all of them. Me and my DH were sat there looking at each other like 😮 he was always exceptionally bright in primary school and often in a higher age group, got into grammar school no problem and has gone on to be a perfectly normal, sociable (now a bit too cool for school doing A levels) popular boy. Just see how he gets on. Don't label him. There's no need at this point. I never even looked into that sort of thing.

I personally feel if there are no speech delays, behavioural issues or problems with understanding then labels are useless but if he does continue to have some issues with focusing on other tasks or forming friendships then there’s no harm in asking the school for support in these areas. There’s no need for labels as long as he is well supported in all areas.
Your ds sounds wonderful and you should be very proud.

@MiniEggsz would you expect a 3yo to understand cubed numbers rather than rattle them off by rote?

Would it be so bloody difficult for everyone to stop calling a diagnosis of ASD a label? Seriously, time and time again parents of children and adults themselves with a diagnosis have repeatedly said on this site that it is hurtful, belittling, disrespectful and ignorant. As someone who has spent all morning on the phone begging for help for my amazing daughter, I'm asking please stop and reevaluate your language, because language matters.

Can people stop saying don't use labels.

It's very hard to get a child diagnosed and a child is or isn't autistic if they are it's not a label.

Many adults who are finding out they are autistic now wish they'd known years before.

I would talk to you're child's teacher and see if they have any concerns. It may be he likes numbers some kids do like things without anything else going on at 4 kids are a bit self centred it's normal to want to talk about what there interest is. Or it may be he's autistic we can't say over the internet but being autistic isn't a label if that were the case.

Ds the same, at the pt meeting this year the teacher said he was great at his maths. I said numbers are all he talks about (he’ll randomly say ‘isn’t it funny if you put four zeros on this number and multiply it by this number it’s the same as if you …’ and when dh taught him about squaring and cubing things he got so excited and now he randomly tells people he knows what one hundred squared is, or ten million times whatever number.) She said ‘um no, I mean he’s exceptional. Keep him going on it, he’ll use it well someday’. It’s just his hobby, don’t be embarrassed by it, it’s cute! And someone mentioned asd above, that will be mentioned, my brother has as and I possibly do too, so we watch everything, it could be with your ds but then at the same time if children can’t give him what he wants (talking about numbers) then why wouldn’t he look to an adult! He sounds fab op!

Sounds exactly like me age that age. I am not diagnosed but 100% autistic. Noone realised till ds was diagnosed, now it seems very obvious. I don't know why nobody noticed earlier!

Probably because everyone is obsessed with not giving kids “labels”.

This.

It’s not a label, my autistic DC is not a jar of jam or unaccompanied baggage. It’s an often hard fought for medical diagnosis. No one ever says “oh don’t get your child labelled” when talking about diabetes or a visual impairment, why the hell do people say it about autism?

He sounds clever and lovely, also quite possibly autistic. If he is autistic knowing that he is might help him navigate the world. Thinking of it as a label isn't helpful - it doesn't make you worse or less than, just different.

Waiting lists for diagnosis on NHS are running at up to 5 years though.

DS was same - also had delayed speech
Not ASD - grew up to be a quiet accountant - very happy and still loves statistics and numbers which has led him to a few money making side hussles

Only on MN does every childhood trait get labelled as ASD.🙄

My DS was the same. He still is. He's 27.
He got a first in Maths at Warwick and became a maths teacher so he can obsess about numbers to his heart's content.

Would it be so bloody difficult for everyone to stop calling a diagnosis of ASD a label?

Its just the usual ignorant people that come along to all possible ND threads. They make themselves look really silly. They’re annoying but just pity their ignorance and intolerance.

Saying an autistic person has a label really feels pejorative.

People don’t call epilepsy, for example, my sons other diagnosis which is commonly comorbid with ASD, a label. ASD is a neuro developmental condition.

I'd keep an eye on things, and see what school think. If they suggest ASD then there's no harm in starting the process - waiting lists to be seen are pretty long, so by the time the appointment comes through you might feel it's not needed and you can cancel it.

The reason a diagnosis may be helpful is just to give you options for support later on. For example, my DS has been diagnosed, and the main issue he has is disorganisation. He finds it hard to follow a string of instructions, so a TA feeds them to him one by one - in this way he can complete an activity which would otherwise be a real struggle for him, so he's achieving more than he otherwise would. He doesn't need full-time help; just someone to give him the odd nudge. Things like that can be very handy as they get older.

"People don't need labels" is all very well until people start filling in their own labels out of ignorance (e.g. boring, weird, annoying, etc.). It's also all very well until a person requires accommodations, services or support at some point in life and has to start from absolute scratch getting their needs recognised. OP, seek assessment. (I'm autistic and ADHD).

That said, your boy sounds like an absolute delight!! The joy and fulfilment he gets from numbers is wonderful to read about. Absolutely sounds like an autistic special interest to me. Special interests enrich our (autistic peoples') lives so, so much. It's honestly really cheered me up reading about the depth of his passion for numbers. What a fab kid.

Naughty is a label, ASD is a diagnosis.

Sounds like hyperlexia! It goes hand in hand with autism most of the time. My 7yo is hyperlexic.

Your DS sounds fabulous. Maybe he'll be a great mathematician or physicist some day.

But, like others here, I wish people would stop using the word 'label' with regard to ASD diagnosis. Indeed, nobody gets an autism diagnosis simply for being great at maths, not even for being a bit obsessed with it. When it comes to ASD assessment, that is based on a whole range of difficulties. I don't see being good at maths as an impairment in and of itself!