What is going on?

[pleasemindyourmanners]

I am a teacher and I am aware that this will no doubt lead to lots of teacher bashing as this appears to have become a national past time.
I just can't work out what is going on with children and parents and attitudes towards school.
Younger and younger children are coming through with less and less resilience. I realise that covid and lockdowns have played a part but this was happening before then too. It is just gradually getting worse.
So many parents also appear almost delusional about their children. That is increasing year on year too. They are not interested in any misdemeanours their child may have been part of. They only believe one version of events. And all want their child to be listened to and their version to be acted upon.
I was looking at my pension pot. I have about 25 years to reach the state pension. That is a terrifying prospect. If behaviour and attitudes towards teaching/schools carry on the same trajectory I dread to think what things will be like by that point.
I really wish I could put my finger on what the main problems are but the issues are so massive there are definitely no easy fixes. Lack of resources and specialist staff is one issue but i don't remember there being such a huge need as there is nowadays.
It is like we, teachers, are also becoming immune to being sworn at by parents and even primary aged kids.
It isn't just my school. Friends in other schools and teachers on teaching Facebook pages are all saying the same thing. I'd say this is one of the many reasons there is a teacher retention issue. It is draining.
I absolutely love the kids and what I do. However, I feel like I can't do my job properly a lot of the time as I've effectively become a bouncer or a referee.
Everything appears to be blamed on teachers. Even icy conditions round school was seen as our fault and we were thoughtless putting them out in the icy playground.
Kids who just get on with things, don't try to cause a drama, who are kind without having constant dramas are becoming more and more rare. This is no longer the expected behaviour and ore like a wishful dream. It is Monday night and I'm totally exhausted already.

Every job has perks. Teaching has long mostly unpaid holidays.

I don't hate my friend who stumbles to her home office at 9 every day while I run out the door at 7.

I don't hate my friend who has a leisurely run during her lunch break while I barely have time for a wee.

I don't hate my friend who gets paid overtime.

I don't hate my friend who gets paid three times what I get paid.

I find it strange that people hate teachers and disrespect them because of their holidays.

No, it isn’t a sweeping nonsense statement when the people I’m referring to have mention that they were born in the 60s 🙄 So my Mum’s generation.

Of course social media isn’t oxygen but you are being utterly wilfully obtuse if you don’t think older kids and teens NOT accessing social media at all doesn’t also have detrimental affects to them. Like it or not, social media is a thing. It’s so very easy to say “just don’t let them on it” but another thing in reality when all their friends use it to communicate constantly and your child is out the loop.

This conversation has been happening for generations. It was TV before the internet. Believe it or not it was books at one point too. Yawn. It’s getting boring.

As one of those mums that couldn't put my baby down at night, you have no idea what it's like unless you have lived it.

After consecutive hours of cry it out, where does softness finish and abuse begin?

Would I have been a better mum to risk her life by keeping falling asleep with her in my arms or hallucinating through exhaustion? Or letting her choke on her sick from screaming in her cot?

Unless you've lived that it's easy to say there is a solution. It doesnt mean I'm a soft parent and it's not a predictor for entitled children.

I did also say that it started before the pandemic. Yes, it has got worse and Covid will have had a huge impact. However, it isn't all to do with pandemic. It had started before that just the rate of change has sped up.

I hope that I'm not one of the parents with a bad attitude, I respect teachers and think they are overworked. But I think the school system is utter shit. It is designed to stifle creativity and force all children into one specific type of person. They learn very little of value, the social scene is often poor, and they are forced to spend most of their awake time doing something they don't like, and which carries little value. Many parents see this, and are not willing to go along with trampling on their own children until they conform to the system.

I’m 46, my childhood was awful. Narcissistic mother and enabler(but wonderful) father. We got told what to do, when to do it, and if we dared not to, we got thrashed. With my kids I’m the opposite.
And whilst my kids are well behaved (school parents evenings are an actual delight), they absolutely ARE entitled. Something I didn’t foresee when I sat next to my daughter holding her hand till she fell asleep every night (I KNOW, I KNOW!) amongst a lot of other things.
The thing is, my parenting style is one big trauma response. I couldn’t bear the thought of them thinking they weren’t safe. They know that I don’t say no, I ask them what they think I should say etc, and I’ve probably set them up with a false sense of how the world works.
I would tell all parents to be, to get counseling, To help them be better, with each generation.
I know that not everyone is going to have the same experience, but I thought I’d add this as mine.

If teachers dread the days out then perhaps why do them so much !
I don't mean not have any, but do fewer of them. How do they evaluate the benefits of doing them. What evidence based assessment could teachers provide to parents to show their value ?

I do realise a risk assessment would be needed etc and undertaken etc.

The OP asked for opinions as to why teachers might not be so respected these days.

I have offered mine.

Offer the OP your views to her question ? What would you say.

The government has so much to answer for. Teachers spend so long trying to make interesting and engaging lessons but are forced to teach so many things that they don't feel the children are ready for or see no value in as the curriculum is so full and uninspiring in many places.

Don't get me started on the shit show that is Year 2 and Year 6.

I have lived it.
I eventually had to do sleep training with my first baby.
It took two nights, then she slept through.
There was no way I was going to spend every evening waiting for a baby to fall asleep, wasting my evenings.
I followed the book's advice for my next three children, so I never had to sleep train them.

The reason I booked trips to the theatre, to the library, to the park, to a residential is because I believe in giving all children as many opportunities as possible.

The risk assessment is just the start. Not to mention the stress from responsibility. Despite the huge amount of work and stress I do it for the children.

To hear you say that you think it's a jolly for me is insulting. Why would I spend 4 nights away from my own children, not having any sleep and looking after 60 children for my own sake?

This with bells on.
Mum taught at a school in Poplar , London (Working class tough area back then) and said the kids were well behaved.
Streaming worked very well- How can one teacher manage mixed abilities easily , especially if there is disruptive behaviour involved

School trips out are certainly not “Jollies!”
Whoever said that has never been involved in one-
I volunteered, and it is a responsibility “Shepherding” one’s group, making sure they can do the work, and are safe.
There was one parent who volunteered who thought it WAS a “Jolly”, and abandoned her group to go and sit in a dockside café!

I only knew as her group came up and said they’d lost Mrs H!

Too many people don't understand balance.

It's perfectly possible to raise your children to be respectful and considerate towards them, whilst maintaining discipline and clear boundaries. It doesn't have to be gentle parenting OR corporal punishment.

Far too many behaving in particular ways "because they can" and because they don't give a crap about the consequences. Far too many parents pandering to their kids because they are scared of them and don't want to emotionally damage them. Oh the irony. Every other person "has anxiety" these days. Except they don't "have anxiety," they just feel worried about normal everyday situations out of their comfort zones - a normal, standard, human emotion. The sense of entitlement in this country these days is astounding. It's all "me me me" and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Sure, it wasn't an issue for your niece. I'm glad to hear that.
That doesn't mean it isn't a serious issue for other children and that self-indulgence often doesn't come into it.
And so the one-size-fits-all non-negotiable stategy you advocate upthread won't work for everyone.
That's all I'm sayìng.

I have children. One is neurotypical. Sometimes moans about going to school but is sent in. His brother has autism, clinical anxiety, ocd. Self-harms, sucide ideation aged 10...
School refusal for him is a very different issue than it is for his sibling.
To suggest children like him are being self-indulgent or that their parents are ... to suggest that 'non-negotiable ' is even an option for some of these cases...well, it means you don't have a clue what some people are going through, do you? Lucky you.

I also think OP has a point to make. I don't dismiss what she says. I simply disagree with those who think everything is caused by poor parenting and that all kids have the same reasons for behaving as they do.

Your view of what is happening in schools is certainly not the same as mine. We tend to try and avoid too many trips because of the cost, the paperwork before you go, the risk assessments and trying to get helpers to accompany us.
We might not be in front of pupils as much as you would like but there is much more to our job. I'm lucky that I don't work on a Tuesday as I'm part time. However, whilst my child naps, I'm writing reports and I will be making resources this afternoon.

Is this new? I was brought up in a working class area and the school I went to was just how you describe. I remember a parent shouting at a teacher because teacher insisted child wear the uniform and she was effing and blinding. Mind you the estate wasn't much better, one mum watched as her son threatened to beat me up.

I went to a CoE primary first in Camberwell, South East London, and I distinctly remember blood on the walls and I was attacked by another child. I then went to a middle class school and things seemed better.

Similarly I went to a middle class inner city secondary then a really crap one in Peckham, and the first one our headteacher got beaten up and I got badly bullied.

Now I live in a working class area again and our little primary seems lovely but some of the kids are practically thrown through the gates by their parents and some of the children are aggressive and shout at teachers.

Is it a class thing? Or is it maybe there's still too many children in the class, 30 seems a lot to have a handle over. In the CofE school one teacher would scream at the class and hit a ruler so hard on the table it would break and fly off.

I completely disagree. I grew up in the 80ies and 90ies when neither parents nor teachers gave a shit about mental health, bullying, choosing a viable career, etc. What it meant or me was that I had to build the resilience and retrain later in life when I should have been "settled", focusing on other things. IME it's mainly schools that pander to kids nowadays - by letting them come in later if they have "issues", by renaming nativity to "seasonal performance" in fear if offending non-Christians, not allowing kids to play tag in the playground because someone might fall over, giving stars and rewards to everyone simply for participation even if they only made a half-arsed attempt.

The post was not designed to 'have a go' as some have incorrectly interpreted.
You asked for opinions as to why many others have a poor view of teaching at the mo.
Nobody can speak for everyone and so it is a general view gleaned from many sources.

I do think it is important to show you do relate to other employment when casting the light on teaching and issues faced.

I once watched a programme where teachers said they sometimes didn't get home till 6pm by way of explaining how very hard they worked.
Without registering that for many people they might be catching a train or bus to get home at that time. Normally.

I am not endorsing an over hours working ethics. But it showed a lack of being able to relate to other peoples world of work.
I have had friends who are teachers so do not hate people because they are !

Every job has difficulties. I think if teachers could show they can relate more and are sensitive to the demands of the world of work elsewhere it would help.

As you pointed out there is a slip in respect. Some is behaviour in society generally. Social media has been introduced and nobody quite knows how to manage it. We don't communicate with each other in the same way anymore. People are harsher, more verbally aggressive online. Children say what they like.

Many schools are excellent and academically do very well. Not all students of course are academically minded. Many parents try to move away ( literally) from schools they worry about to get their children into a good school. Some schools and children I think get left behind.

@Guis

The OP asked for opinions as to why teachers might not be so respected these days.

I have offered mine.

Offer the OP your views to her question ? What would you say.

It's down to the ill informed ignorance of some people.

I have many examples, but most of my experiences happened when I was teaching abroad years ago. Once, mybY2 class were doing a reading comprehension test. One child kept trying to speak to another and I told her quite firmly to stop. I was doing some work on the computer at the time and quickly typed something while the kids completed the test.

The next day, the child's mum had a go at me for telling her daughter off and then proceeding to 'type angrily' afterwards. This mum was constantly complaining about my 'aggressive attitude', and while I am firm, I am a very gently mannered teacher. I went straight to SMT to tell them about the accusations. They were shocked that I was being labelled in such a manner as it was just so blatantly untrue! My nickname was Miss Honey because I have a very calm tone and am also very motherly. Having boundaries with the children was seen as an act of aggression.

I also had some concerns about some aspects of another child's development and raised it with a mum who completely lost it, asking was I calling her kid disabled and that nobody else thought there was a problem and just what exactly was I trying to say. She got so mad that I eventually dropped the issue because there was no point.

Another parent had insisted that her child skip Reception because she thought he was too clever to be messing around playing (this was not in the UK, remember!). By the time he got to me in Year 2 he was struggling massively. She blamed me completely, even though he was a year too young and had missed out all of Reception. I kept trying to differentiate the work to his ability level and the mum kept coming at me telling me it was too easy and how would he ever learn if I didn't challenge him. I felt that she was projecting a huge amount of her own guilt onto me.

Another kid spat on the floor, and when I told the mum, she told me that maybe if I loved her son more, he would listen to me. OK!

The constant, furious complaints about unlabelled uniform going missing! Parents absolutely raging when their child who couldn't speak English wasn't top of the class. Parents just going nuts with me about everything basically. In this case, the aprenst thought that if they paid for their child's education, there better be miracles.

Nah. I co-slept with my kids til my eldest was 5, (although TBF she's autistic). They're 20 and 16 now, and have always been polite and well behaved. No teenage dramas or any of the crap I used to give my parents.

I don't understand why teachers should show show appreciation for the working conditions of others.

Are GPs showing appreciation of other working conditions?

How about the police?

It's the assumption that teachers somehow have no understanding of other jobs. This is often spouted by people who have no understanding of teaching jobs.

Oh the irony.

@TheShellBeach I would say similar to you but the opposite. Secure attachments are best gained by nurturing and showing baby they are completely secure, and I think we have opposite views on that.

I think ultimately it's many factors but given there are more and more people year on year this problem won't go away but only get worse.

Maybe I am living a massively sheltered life as a parent, not a teacher, but I just don’t see the behaviour you’re talking about in my DC’s primary or among their friends/classmates who visit us and do activities with them.

It’s just an ordinary primary (or maybe not!) in a city with a mixture of backgrounds/income among the families. From what I have seen the teachers are really fair but firm. There is not a lot of shouting but teachers talk to kids with respect and have clear boundaries. There is a mindfulness club set up by one of the TAs because her daughter had bad anxiety as a teen and she wishes she had had the tools to cope earlier.

To be honest, the massive differences I see from when I was at school are that the kids are much more likely to articulate their feelings (not just my kids, but their friends too), they are much more knowledgeable about and sympathetic to kids who have additional needs, and they are fiercely anti-racist. I’m actually really excited and positive about the adults they will become.

Sheer entitlement and laziness from what I can see in a lot of younger parents. I have noticed a huge shift in parenting strategies since my oldest started. He has a lovely year group. They are all starting secondary soon. They also overall have good parents who have rules and boundaries and overall the year group are brilliant.

DC2 year is pretty iffy. The behaviour of some of the kids in P2 and P3 is appalling and the blame culture from parents something else some of the examples I have heard include

"It's the teachers fault they are behind academically because they didn't get homework". The teachers did give homework for the last 2 years but the parents didn't bother to look at it.

The child is struggling in school so it's "school staffs fault" hhmm nothing to do with the fact a young child has never had a bed time routine so is constantly exhausted in school.

Some parents laughing at their young kids bad behaviour like swearing, shouting and hitting. They really don't realise a lot of parents will not allow their kids to play with a child that behaves like this (I am not talking about additional support needs). My oldest has diagnosed additional support needs but has been taught that behaviour is unacceptable. His school has a lot of additional needs children with diagnosed nuerological conditions but its a small percentage of nuerotypical children who are behaving far worse because their parents don't address the poor behaviour.

Parents allowing uncontrolled access to utube and video games that are not appropriate is a huge issue. Games have ages for a reason and that reason is they are not suitable for younger kids because they are either too violent or younger kids executive functioning and cognitive skill development is not at a level they can cope with these games.

Parents more interested in themselves than their child. Unfortunately this happy mum happy child plays into this. Yes a happy mum is a happy child generally but a child will never be a happy child if they are suffering because of their lifestyles choices such as spending loads of money on nights out and putting their child in old clothes.

Parents spending more time on there phones than with there child (I often have found parents who constantly boost on social media how wonderful parents they are bother with their kids the least).

Parents encouraging their kids and believing their child is a diva and encouraging this. A diva is not something to aspire to be as it's basically someone who is a spoilt and demanding brat.

I feel sorry for teachers as actually in general most kids are fabulous and a lot of parents are wonderful but their is definitely a shift in parenting in the last few years.