Who is out of order here?

[fornical]

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

YABVU.

The difference between an 8am start and a 9am start on a weekend day is a big one. She’s being perfectly reasonable to ask for the extra fiver in my opinion.

I don't think she needs to pay tax and NI on £40 a week.

I think you killed your golden goose.

Also, London living wage (the minimum you can live on in London) is more than this.

Because it's effectively lower than minimum wage.

You think that's ok?

This!

This is completly fair! I don't get paid for my journey to work. If you work for the council, nhs, any retailer then you do not get paid for your drive to work. Not sure why people think you are exploiting people.

Maybe 15 pounds for the first hour as a compromise 🤷‍♀️

everyone should be reporting all income. its up to hmrc if you need to pay tax and NI

That's not true.

There are quite a few sources of income that do not need to be reported to hmrc.

When you only use self employed people so you don't pay pension, holidays, sick pay national insurance, etc then the advantage to them is they can increase their prices whenever they like. At at £10 an hour, they should increase them!

I'd want more pay for that earlier start & do charge extra for an earlier start myself. Flip it's an extra £5 to you. I wouldn't want to get my family up an hour earlier & sort everything out unless the benefit was significant

Because taking holiday into account, op is paying the equivalent of £8.92 per hour.

If you were to take into account pension contributions that the worker would be entitled to as an employee, it drops even further.

I know you can earn up to £1,000 self employed without paying anything. NI depends on your circumstances and if you need to pay to get full state pension.

True but if she has to replace her and the only driver she can find is one local to her pick up in London then they would expect both journeys to and from Essex to be covered by mileage as there “commute” to work wouldn’t be included in that. So should probably count herself lucky that she hasn’t had to pay much mileage which I’m sure she more than factors into her costs when charging her customers for delivery.

If she has been reliable for this past year, she would be worth another $5/hr

You don't have to report earnings under £1,000 per annum. Even if she registers she won't pay NI and the only way she'd pay tax is if she has other income taking her over the tax threshold and remember as self employed she can claim her expenses e.g. running her car.

Yes. No tax but wise to pay NI contributions if you relying on getting full state pension.

Tbh, I don't think anyones being U.
She isn't paid well considering she isn't paid from the drive to Essex to London (or did I misread that?)

The £0.45p a mile doesn't cover much more than literal fuel, so her £10ph is not good.

What you are offering, and what she is needing don't align.

Have someone who doesn't have children, and lives closer if you want to continue paying that sort of money for people necquse I suspect its the pressure of losing a Saturday as it is with her child, along with it being an earlier start, and the cost of travel, for not the greatest pay off.

But again, this is just another way in which the OP is (illegally)treating the driver as an employee, not a self-employed contractor to dodge labour laws.

A self-employed contractor would usually have a minimum call out fee to cover the costs of getting to work- similar to how most trades have- electrician, plumber, etc.

You can pay her those things you just don't want to. I've had jobs where I was contracted to work four hours and was paid holidays, statutory sick pay and my employer was contributing to my NI. It's what a decent employer would do. You on the other hand are exploiting your drivers by treating them as self-employed by effectively paying less than living wage and giving them none of the flexibiltiy that a self employed person should benefit from. You are a gig economy employer. If someone is truly self employed they can set their hours and their rates of pay, but your drivers clearly aren't in a position to even begin a negotiation with you on this. If I were this woman I'd be shopping you to HMRC for tax avoidance.

If she just drives for you, it could be said she's an employee.

Btw, the worst offenders for this are chartered accountants who should, and do, know better.

£10 an hour is not a good wage. £15 seems entirely reasonable. If you’ve decided that it’s not for you, then I’d suggest you terminate the agreement. As a freelancer/self employed, she can choose to charge more, or work elsewhere.
I fail to see why you don’t seem to understand this.

Is it just for that extra hour she wants the £15 or the whole shift?

To be fair she is asking you an honest question.. to make jr worth her while she needs the amount requested ..

You have two options.

Yes the business can sustain that ..
crack on ..

No. It can't . I need to find someone else ...