Who is out of order here?

[fornical]

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

Why aren’t you paying her to go collect the meals?

Tory behaviour.

Pay your staff a reasonable wage and stop ripping the arse out of them.

And people on minimum wage also get pensions/NI contributions etc from their employer. £10/hour gross, with no benefits as a self employed person is less than minimum wage as an employed person.

self employed workers can also set their own rates.

@fornical if you want to control the rate you need to employ folk or pay market rate for self employed workers

You are not a good employer.

That means you don't get employees who are willing to go out of their way for you.

You pay close to minimum wage on a shifty s/e basis so you don't have to pay into a pension scheme or give holidays & now want to move the goal posts on what amounts to a Saturday job with short notice.
If she only works for you on Saturdays, you are not the wage that keeps a roof over her head.

What did you expect?

You may find if HMRC review this situation, that as she regularly works hours you specify over a sustained period of time, from a location of your choice, following a route you dictate, that they can overrule your so called self employment & judge her to be employed by you.

I would not get out of bed for £10 an hour whatever the time of day.

Yes, so you're whinging over paying a woman who you want to get up at stupid o'clock on a weekend and disrupt her family arrangements an extra twenty quid a week.

I now know what posters mean when they claim to be embarrassed for somebody else.

I employ freelancers. They get 35-40% more per hour than the PAYE ‘employed’ staff. This accounts for the fact that they attend to their own tax liabilities and NI. This also compensates them for the benefits of employment that the PAYE staff receive that they don’t. They have to set aside a portion of their hourly rate for their holiday pay, sick pay and pension contribution.

If you are not following a similar model you are taking the piss, or the free lancers are grossly mis-managing their self employment.

She’s actually working for you for 8 hours. No insurance, no sick pay… how can you ‘employ’ someone like this? I’m pretty sure you’re breaking some employment laws. She can leave tomorrow and tell you to F off. I actually hope she does.

Well you can, you can employ her properly for four hours a week. But you don’t want to do that, you want to take advantage of someone doing a job for you for a very low rate of pay 🤷‍♀️

And do you have all your legal and hygiene accreditations for your food business?

I think you'll find if this is her main or only job technically she is an employee should she so decide to claim to be?

So you are paying for 4 hours but getting at least 5 hours?

I think it's quite fair for her to tell you what it's worth to her to continue doing this work.

The idea of being self employed is that she is in business on her own account. She may not only be driving for the OP. She sets her rates. She decides who she contracts with and rates are negotiated and agreed.

Unless, of course, it’s all a front to pay less tax. Then you might have bigger problems if the relationship sours (such as a claim for employment status and related back pay).

Yes. I'm sure I've read this before from the drivers perspective.

You are out of order. Weekend work should be paid a bit higher than barely above minimum wage.

the point is also that there is less of an inequality of terms. It’s business to business.

if it’s not, then she’s a worker. And that’s an issue for you.

If you can't pay her annual leave etc.. then you do not have a viable business.

Let me guess, there is enough money for you in it though?

You should be ashamed.

If you don't ask, you don't get

You’re taking the piss especially as you’re not posting her to drive to London.

I think she asked nicely

and she sounds reasonable

as sounds her wage if it’s 15

So many people with no understanding of true self employed status.

Of course I bloody do

You are paying her a shitty rate and she's chosen not to take it any more.

Such is life.

You'll have to try to find another driver to rip off now.

If she's self employed she probably isn't getting holiday pay or sick pay so it isn't great.

100% agreed.