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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Moral dilemma with porn use

54 replies

itcouldwork · 18/02/2023 23:47

Please help me work this out. All my life, I feel porn use is kind of normalised - mainly men but women too. I guess I've always accepted that watching it is very widespread, so 'normal' and I haven't judged what people watch in their own homes.. But it's never sat well with me.

I hear so much about trafficking and taking advantage of vulnerable girls, I feel that as my own girls have become teens/young adults, I'm feeling more uneasy about my partner watching porn.

No one really knows if the 'actress' is fully consenting, and if not, are people watching 'rape' unwittingly?

I'm finding it really difficult to reconcile these thoughts and if I can't, I'm not sure if I can continue my relationship. I just can't seem to stop it going around my head. So many awful stories of abused young women, it's hard to accept my partner watching it - he's lovely and kind but thinks all porn is consentual.

OP posts:
greenspaces4peace · 19/02/2023 01:46

@Openmindedbloke except coke and mj are illegal, and there are laws against its use. people are employed to prevent its use and sale, so a swath of “people” who are not okay with this either.

DivorcedAndDelighted · 19/02/2023 01:49

OP, have a look at the site "Make Love Not Porn". That's often recommended as an ethical site.

MsCactus · 19/02/2023 02:46

If your issue is with trafficking/rape/lack of consent... Why not ask him to only watch porn from female led creators, or something like Only Fans where the girls work independently. I think you can easily find ethical porn if the ethics of the industry are the problem for you

brightare · 19/02/2023 03:24

@Openmindedbloke has a valid point.
He doesn't watch porn as thinking it's rape and unconsentual. But if thats worth leaving him for them you need to consider every aspect of life. Where and who had mass produced clothes, it could be child slaves abroad. Who's Producing our food? Etc.

Original poster
itcouldwork · 19/02/2023 08:57

I think ethical sites would certainly be better.
My issue is watching the abuse and women and children shown on porn, as it's impossible to avoid on mainstream sites. The legal cases against pornhub from victims is just those that get to court.

OP posts:
VestaTilley · 19/02/2023 09:00

YANBU. I hate it. I hate it and how disrespectful it is to women, it objectifies us and contributes to bad male behaviour which impacts women and girls.

I couldn’t be with a man who watched it. It’s horrific, it’s not “normal”, and our pornography- saturated sexualised culture is frankly horrible to live in.

Sparkmeonce · 19/02/2023 10:50

VestaTilley · 19/02/2023 09:00

YANBU. I hate it. I hate it and how disrespectful it is to women, it objectifies us and contributes to bad male behaviour which impacts women and girls.

I couldn’t be with a man who watched it. It’s horrific, it’s not “normal”, and our pornography- saturated sexualised culture is frankly horrible to live in.

You’ll really struggle to find someone that doesn’t. Even the ones that say they don’t, after a few beers it all comes out! I would just embrace it. It’s pretty ubiquitous in our culture. My partner does and I’m ok with that. I might try getting them into animé, there are no victims in that. And hopefully soon we’ll have VR/AR

buttercupboots · 19/02/2023 10:59

Could you ask him to sign up to someone's only fans instead? Appreciate then it would be limited to only that sex worker, but at least you could check it out and know that they are of age, doing it of their free will, money is going to them etc. I'm referring to possibly more well known people on there who have social media etc rather than smaller unknown accounts where the same issues could apply.

Alternatively there is audio porn which is essentially audible for porn, could give that a go?

Adrelaxzz · 19/02/2023 11:07

Openmindedbloke · 19/02/2023 00:39

Fair enough,
Fwiw, there are lots of industries that exploit people like the clothes industry, the drug industry, some foods that are imported, crypto, banking in general. Some of these have cases of human trafficking. IMO it’s reasonable that people make sensible choices about what they do/use so they arnt supported too much, but we’re all human and for me, it’s more of a ‘live and let live’ kind of vibe.

Show quote history

If you were raped anally repeatedly by several men and it was then sold as entertainment for other men to wank over would you say, ah well there's loads of other trafficked people too?
How about if it was your Mum? It happens to older women too and babies and....
I try and avoid all form of trafficking. I bank at ethical banks so I know my money isn't used to fund such activity. I buy clothes second hand and wouldn't eat food if I knew it had a high chance of contributing to enslavement, torture etc.
It's a cop out to say, well theres loads of bad stuff happening.

Parisj · 19/02/2023 11:21

I don't think it's very good for the people who consume it either.

Sparkmeonce · 19/02/2023 12:46

Adrelaxzz · 19/02/2023 11:07

If you were raped anally repeatedly by several men and it was then sold as entertainment for other men to wank over would you say, ah well there's loads of other trafficked people too?
How about if it was your Mum? It happens to older women too and babies and....
I try and avoid all form of trafficking. I bank at ethical banks so I know my money isn't used to fund such activity. I buy clothes second hand and wouldn't eat food if I knew it had a high chance of contributing to enslavement, torture etc.
It's a cop out to say, well theres loads of bad stuff happening.

Show quote history

Yeah, well good for you. But most people shop at tesco and primark and bank with whoever pays the most interest.
Surely, there is going to be a spectrum of this is someone consensually trying to make a living and this is someone being trafficked. it obviously makes sense to choose the most ethical, if that’s OF or VR or dolls ect but to say ‘all porn is bad’ would be like saying ‘all clothes shop sell stuff from sweatshops’

MsCactus · 19/02/2023 15:04

"My issue is watching the abuse and women and children shown on porn, as it's impossible to avoid on mainstream sites"

I'm pretty sure there is cartoon/aime porn and those that use AI computerised people etc, there's also erotica fiction. If you have a problem with the ethics you could limit it to porn that doesn't use any actual people

Luckydip1 · 19/02/2023 15:14

I think a lot of people who don't like porn on principle use the sex trafficking argument to justify their view, although they would never admit it. If you have proof anyone has been trafficked, report to the police with your evidence and they will take action. Porn is legal and enjoyed by billions of people.

Original poster
itcouldwork · 19/02/2023 21:06

Yes, but we do know that trafficking in the sex industry happens. 😒
There's plenty of court cases...
I'm fine about consensual filming.

OP posts:
Abba123 · 19/02/2023 21:31

I think you’re being a bit hyper vigilant.

I’ve know people working in the porn industry and they weren’t coerced at all. They were lazy and had no body shame, simple as that.

I have no idea why anyone would be a bin man or abattoir without coercion but there they are, very little shame for how they smell or inflicting death.

It is illegal to imitate illegal sexual acts so you can’t watch fake rape.

I can’t help but feel that you are victimising these women as an extent of how you feel like a victim.

Original poster
itcouldwork · 19/02/2023 21:32

Maybe a disclaimer of 'some of the material you are about to watch may contain scenes of child sex abuse and women trafficked or coerced' would enable give us a chance to decide to watch 😒

OP posts:
DuckonaBike · 19/02/2023 21:42

VestaTilley · 19/02/2023 09:00

YANBU. I hate it. I hate it and how disrespectful it is to women, it objectifies us and contributes to bad male behaviour which impacts women and girls.

I couldn’t be with a man who watched it. It’s horrific, it’s not “normal”, and our pornography- saturated sexualised culture is frankly horrible to live in.

Agree with this. We shouldn’t assume something is OK because it’s common and widely accepted. I’m sure we can all think of things that were acceptable in the past that horrify us now. It’s only by challenging them that things will change.

Original poster
itcouldwork · 19/02/2023 21:46

DuckonaBike · 19/02/2023 21:42

Agree with this. We shouldn’t assume something is OK because it’s common and widely accepted. I’m sure we can all think of things that were acceptable in the past that horrify us now. It’s only by challenging them that things will change.

Show quote history

Very good point.

OP posts:
Randomactsofspanking · 19/02/2023 22:04

itcouldwork · 19/02/2023 21:32

Maybe a disclaimer of 'some of the material you are about to watch may contain scenes of child sex abuse and women trafficked or coerced' would enable give us a chance to decide to watch 😒

I can’t recall watching porn to that effect to be honest, and I am pretty sure porn of that nature is illegal in the UK. So I think ‘the system’ works as far as those examples are concerned

Original poster
itcouldwork · 19/02/2023 22:18

@Randomactsofspanking The point is that it that it happens (according to many successful victim legal challenges) but those that watched the abuse, wouldn't have spotted (the abuse) because the victim was forced/under pressure to 'perform' for the entertainment of porn users.

OP posts:
Grizzledstrawberry · 19/02/2023 22:29

I do believe there is a paid ethical porn site, I'm sure I read a article before about it when I was searching tips on talking to my teen about porn and the awful violence that is normalised towards women in it, worth a google if this could be a compromise for you?

crackofdoom · 19/02/2023 22:42

Erica Lust is an ethical porn director- she has a couple of sites- XConfessions, LustCinema etc. I think she has a project about how to talk to young people about porn as well, grizzledstrawberry

Randomactsofspanking · 19/02/2023 23:51

crackofdoom · 19/02/2023 22:42

Erica Lust is an ethical porn director- she has a couple of sites- XConfessions, LustCinema etc. I think she has a project about how to talk to young people about porn as well, grizzledstrawberry

This is really sensible advice. If we don’t get the youth involved early, on ethical stuff and anime they will end up watching unethically sound stuff (what sounds like from pp) without even knowing it!

Ceilingplaits · 20/02/2023 00:01

Sparkmeonce · 19/02/2023 10:50

You’ll really struggle to find someone that doesn’t. Even the ones that say they don’t, after a few beers it all comes out! I would just embrace it. It’s pretty ubiquitous in our culture. My partner does and I’m ok with that. I might try getting them into animé, there are no victims in that. And hopefully soon we’ll have VR/AR

Show quote history

I've not struggled at all to find people who don't. Of course we all have in our teens, but most men I know are feminists and would feel degraded and insulted at the suggestion.

GatoradeMeBitch · 20/02/2023 01:00

I think you’re being a bit hyper vigilant.
It is illegal to imitate illegal sexual acts so you can’t watch fake rape.

On any of the big free porn sites, you will see women having sex who are obviously unhappy. My first boyfriend was a big porn fan. I wrote a list of some of the things I saw but I don't want to distress anyone. On the main free sites you absolutely see women being coerced, you see women who are visibly uncomfortable, even distressed. There is a whole thing about the forced participation of Japanese women in their porn, and those videos are available on the big free sites too. In a recent murder case it came out that the man was sexually torturing his partner and uploading the footage to porn hub. This was part of her defense for killing him.

You want to think everyone you see in porn is happy to be there (or bizarrely, sees it as no different to working in Morrisons or on the bins) so it doesn't ruin your orgasm.