That some small businesses are failing because they don’t adapt to the needs of their customers?

[Isawyou]

I try to shop local. Fortunately I do have some great independent places nearby.

What I am finding frustrating is for example the fruit and veg shop closes at 4.30pm. They start packing up at 3.45pm and it is really difficult to buy things from there where they are stacking all the stands with the produce inside. They also look unhappy at customers coming to buy at packing up time. It is easier to go to the Tesco express that stays open until midnight.

Other shops do not open until 10am and close early. So I can’t get there before work or after work.

They complain their businesses are not doing well and people do not shop local but they are not exactly facilitating it for the customers either.

I agree and people telling me to make sure I do regular trips to cash points just to support a local business in this day and age are wasting their breath. I'm not going to do it.

When I was a child "perishable" shops such as butchers, bakers and green grocers were commonly open by 7:00 at the latest - often open whilst they were unloading to catch the early birds. People would shop before they went to work from a local shop. These shops typically closed earlier in the afternoon, would have maybe one evening a week of late opening and a half day mid week. They also did deliveries to local addresses and usually ran accounts for regular customers deemed credit worthy.

Basically they served the needs of the time. Local shops can't compete with Tesco on the price of a can of beans so they need to offer me something better or unavailable from Tesco in terms service, local provenance, convenience or niche items.

Our local bakers do pretty well and don't have overly extended hours - they make good basic products in interesting variations as well as taking pre orders for filled rolls, sandwiches etc for lunches. They focus on quality and customer service but choose products which enable them to do that without insane pricing.

The bookshop and the games shop also do reasonably well - enthusiastic interested owners with a passion for sharing their interest and a good grasp of their business. I know my local games shop charges a bit more than Amazon for the board game of the moment. I also know that if I go in there and say I'm looking for something new for someone who likes X, Y and Z they give me a good recommendation every time based on personal knowledge of the game. They both also keep customer records (by agreement) to send out info on new items of interest and deliver locally if wanted.

Like every other business they need to adapt and some do it well whilst others will fail. When a shop is open random hours and is cash only I also assume something dodgy is going on and won't use it.

Tbf this solely depends on pre-christmas market. Some places make enough to cover the period and everyone can get off. I am big fan of this. We always closed 24th, 25th and 26th at the very least. I wanted Christmas off so did my staff. Other places aren't fussed so they can get that trade. They closed different times when we were open. Our peak was first 3 weeks of Dec.

To go with my cake and coffee, I read that Rutland is to become the first county in England without a bank branch.

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/now-a-whole-county-will-be-left-without-a-bank/ar-AA17EYdh

A fascinating mix of comments ensue, if you choose to read them. I particularly liked the rather low intelligence suggestion that "boomers" somehow resist change. Who the fuck do you think spent their entire fucking working lives bringing online banking into existence ? Who the fuck has spent 35 fucking years working on digital communications with the vision of working from home as a regular practice ? Well I know it wasn't some twat who thinks someone over 55 is bemused by an "app".

Tangentially feeds into the "only takes cash" side of this thread. Personally I detest cash. Quite aside from it's obvious attraction to scrotey types, is the fact that it doesn't really exist. Try and pay for a car park ticket with the "cash" of a £10 note for a demonstration that holds up in court, where "cash" means an exact assortment of coins. Or try paying for something that's £1 with a £20 note.

Couldn’t agree more and it’s something I think about quite a lot as I love to shop local and hate what is happening to our high streets.

We go to the market every Saturday around 0800-0830. The fruit & veg stall have now started taking contactless at any value which is great, we always spend at least a tenner anyway. Their trade always seems to be booming. Their flexibility (and superior product) has increased my loyalty to them.

We like to tie this market visit in with picking up anything we need from the shops, but they’re starting to open later and later now, it used to be standard that shops would open at 9am on a Saturday or weekday, whereas now it’s half an hour up to even 2 hours later than that. And the ones that are open never seem to have in stock anything we go in for (I’m looking at you independent pet shop that only seems to cater for small breeds & independent clothes shop that doesn’t sell clothes for anyone under 5 foot 8), or they don’t take card, or if it’s a cafe they charge a pound extra per item to eat in or don’t sell anything dairy free apart from vegan stuff - my son has suspected CMPA and is EBF. This might all make total business sense to them which is fair enough but they’ve lost my business and I doubt I’m the only one. We go home and order what we need from Amazon or go to a big supermarket.

A local dog trainer recently did a big whiney FB post about how people expect them to be available on weekends and evenings. Alright, don’t be available during those times and see how things work out for you.

It’s not up to the consumer to bend over backwards to meet the needs of businesses.

Also don’t get me started on the local chippy that only opens outside of lunch & dinner times and only on very random days every week. The owner shouts at anyone who hasn’t pre-ordered too. We’ve stopped bothering with them.

I didn't live here for nearly 2 decades and when I came back one of the first things I noticed was that in general, the work ethic here is pretty poor.

People just don't want to work, and then moan when someone else gets something they don't. I worked out that on average, 1/3 of our staff are off sick at any one time and the rest of us have to do their work.

Could they not close one day and have 1 late night closing instead be cheaper on staff hours. I worked 5 days a week and at weekends was either rushing around taking kids to clubs !

I remember that trial - the results were mixed rather than unsuccessful and one of the determinants was the lack of publicity given to the scheme in the local area and within the appointments system. Seven years on with even more people forced into the gig economy even more people cant' afford to take time of work to see a doctor or when ill.

All that said, I suspect the model at the practice where I grew up would work as a mid point. They combined with a couple of other practices to offer evening clinics for a lot of routine stuff such as smears with one practice each week offering the late clinic. They also did late surgeries but not every day - just twice a week. On Saturdays there was a half day surgery for urgents. Sunday was call out only.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, some surgeries still provide this type of model.

To be fair the other way (I love being devils advocate) shops are subject to planning regulations and can't just open and close at will. Will nobody think of the bureaucrats ?

Tbf this solely depends on pre-christmas market. Some places make enough to cover the period and everyone can get off. I am big fan of this. We always closed 24th, 25th and 26th at the very least. I wanted Christmas off so did my staff. Other places aren't fussed so they can get that trade. They closed different times when we were open. Our peak was first 3 weeks of Dec.

What about what the customers want? It is really disappointing when you try and book a meal out on Christmas Eve or NYE and the local restaurants are shut. The 2 most sociable nights of the year!

Of course, places can do what they want. I haven't been back to this closed restaurant since. I just think that if a place is prepared to be open on Christmas Eve, and put on a lovely band for customers to make it special, then I'd rather spend my money there.

I value all of that too but seeing as I'm out at work from 7.30am until 5.30pm M to F, when do you suggest I go to the shop?

This doesn’t wash if you have shops in the same road- selling similar things if one is open 10-4 and the other is open 7-6. It’s not rocket science to guess which one is likely to take more trade

Fascinating thread.

As a small business owner, I've tried things like Sunday and evening opening hours only to find the ones who suggest it come in once or twice and then never do it again.

I saw in the news about a fantastic-looking olde worlde shop in Frome that's closing after exactly 100 years in business - with very little changing in the set-up and decor (some of the old pre-war advertising signs have gone off to a museum). The man who runs it is 77 and quite keen to retire now!

I thought it was very telling when he said that so many people had said how sad they were to see the shop go and asking what the community was going to do without it there - and he said that a lot of the people bewailing its loss were those who never shop there.

The cliffhanger VAT rules are ridiculous and very regressive. Anybody would think they had been specifically designed to keep the politicians' big-boy friends in the dominant position whilst preventing the small fry from getting above their station to a point where they might start to represent anything approaching a threat.

It's not even just the actual numbers and associated impact on the business, but it's also terrible for goodwill. So many ordinary people who aren't involved in running businesses will just see the the prices going up 20% and assume the business is trying to rip everybody off. No matter how much you try to explain, all they see is loyal customers being charged another fifth on top of the 'normal' prices and, ironically, as well as those who simply cannot afford the higher prices, many who could but feel taken advantage of will withdraw their custom, so you may even drop back below the threshold, after all of the massive hassle and expense.

So many posts on here are scoffing and berating people for 'not understanding' how small businesses work and the stresses and strains involved.

• That they have to have a work-life balance, hence shorter opening hours.
• That it costs too much to stay open to xyz time for only a few customers.
• That they're unable to match supermarket costs because they're a small business dontcha know.

These posters are the ones who lack understanding though because none of this needs explaining. I totally understand this, as I'm sure do most others. I just don't care

I shop for my convenience and needs and I'm not responsible for the livelihoods of the local greengrocers/ hairdressers/ cafes etc.

Local businesses either need to provide what their customers want or, if they can't or won't because they don't want to work weekends or whatever and the business is failing, accept that self employment is not for them.

Even hospitality staff deserves Christmas if it's affordable.
I haven't had NYE with my DH or family for 12+ years...

Some other businesses plug this gap, in other times it turnes around and they are off and the first one plugs the gap.

That's how it should work. I would get moaning about why they don't open IF the closed business moaned on facebook about people not supporting them though!

in my sahm days, I was always frustrated to drop off the kids at nursery/school, be really close to the local boutiques, shoe shops, cake shops, etc, and longing for a browse in my un-encumbered state - but none opened until at least 10am. By which time I would have been to Sainsbos and be back home and engrossed in laundry or something. 8.30-9.00am is a real sweet spot for shopping I think

Can't be that hard to keep some cash in your house for the times you fancy a pizza.

Yes, there is a independent cafe not far from us which is closing at 3.30 and closed on Sunday. So the chance of us visiting is close to zero.
The other independent shop (gifts, cards etc) works until 5 pm and it’s very helpful many times.

@catmothertes1 we very rarely have pizza takeaway and I saw on the local Facebook page that they happened to be in the village so we spontaneously thought we'd like some. There used to be a fish and chip van that came sporadically to the village that only accepted cash - but doesn't come any more. If local businesses like this want us to support them them then they need to move with the times and that means either accepting cards or providing the option to order online for pick up from the village green.

I’ve posted this on a similar thread recently. I live rurally and frequent the local butchers and baker, as well as a local cafe. The cafe opens at 7.30am every day including Sunday when it has queues outside the door as it is the only one that opens on a Sunday. The butcher and bakery are exceptionally good so it’s worth it to me to put myself out to get there within their limited opening hours.

The vast majority of small businesses in my local village are not open 6 days, nor are they exceptional. They tend to close Sun and Mon. None of them open a late night. The boutiques don’t offer a refund only store credit so I have to try things on and have rubbish online provision also with most stock not being added until it’s reduced (therefore out of date) and delivery taking a 2-5 days. Entirely up to them how long they want to work but I’m busy on a Saturday. I don’t have time to faff about trying things on or waiting days to receive them when I can order the same items from a larger store with free next day delivery. What incentive is there for me to shop there aside from that fact that it’s local?

If the businesses aren't open then the demand is quite obviously not there.
No point opening, in the hope a handful will pop in.
Dp advertises weekends, he very rarely works weekends and if he does he'll choose the most lucrative calls.

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong in small businesses choosing restricted opening hours - as long as they understand that they will be reducing their takings in doing so. No point whatsoever in complaining that people opt for another shop that is open to buy what they want/need rather than standing fruitlessly outside your locked front door!

To be fair, you could just as easily say that they're restricting their takings by not selling more lines; by diversifying their offering, they could make more and more - but then that's how you end up as a supermarket, which is never going to be within their remit.

The big, important thing is for them to clearly advertise their opening hours and stick to them, so that customers can decide whether it works for them or not. The uncertainty and unreliability is a huge killer.

I shop for my convenience and needs and I'm not responsible for the livelihoods of the local greengrocers/ hairdressers/ cafes etc

I agree with this. We are all under increased pressure with finances and time- having to work longer hours etc.

It’s hardly my responsibility to use extra petrol and take time off work just so I can shop between 10-4 so I can continue to support businesses who don’t consider the convenience of their customers. This just doesn’t work for me I’m afraid and it’s not really environmentally friendly either to make 4 trips when I can just take one to a larger shop that’s open before/after work.

Our GP practice apparently did it too. Trouble was that they didn't tell anyone, so no one knew it was an option!

The business owners screaming and demanding we 'shop local' and 'support local businesses' get on my tits to be honest. We don't owe you a living. If you want our custom, provide better options/service/prices than your competition. If you can't, that's too bad, but that's a you problem 🤷🏻‍♀️

This.

I had the misfortune to work for two independently owned small businesses for years, they refused to give customers basic things they asked for repeatedly over a decade, treated the staff like shit and were each some of the most vile people I’ve ever met.

Whining about people not funding your lifestyle choice to own a shop or whatever is just embarrassing. And nope, the failing high street is not a thing I have any interest in.