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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Eldery Care

132 replies

2023forme · 18/02/2023 13:28

I don’t really know what the point of my post is but I am feeling quite upset by some things in my working life that I need to get it off my chest. It’s a long one so you have been warned.

I have been a nurse for 30 years.
The first half of my career was working in cancer and palliative care and the second was in nurse education, mainly supporting student nurses on clinical placement. Got offered voluntary early release from the university so took it – but I wasn’t ready (or financially able) to stop working completely so I took a job at a lovely care home just round the corner from me.
A friend’s mum was a resident not too long ago and she rated it highly plus it meant a short walk to work and no commute, so I was really looking forward to doing clinical care again. But OMG – what an eye opener it has been.

I just was not prepared for how bad staffing is in the care home sector, the lack of resources and the level of waste has appalled me.
I enjoy the job itself but it has really made me think about my own future and that I need to make an advance directive now as I don’t want to end up living in a care home and just existing.

Staffing levels are dire. On a good shift, we will have a ratio of one staff member to five residents. There is one nurse and one nursing assistant on a shift and the rest of the staff are carers. Out of 32 residents, 27 need two staff members for personal care, continence care and moving/transferring/mobilising. Only 2 residents can feed themselves/take a drink independently. There is at least one agency nurse or carer per shift – often more. This means they don’t know the residents well and don’t understand their needs and preferences. There are also a high percentage of male carers who do agency and most of the female residents have specified in their care plans for only females to provide personal care. Given that women live longer than men, the residents are about 70% female to male. This means that often the male agency carers have very little to do whilst the female staff are run ragged. It also means that residents have to wait longer for care because the female staff are tied up meeting other residents’ needs. Sometimes we have no option but to ask the male carers to attend to a female resident’s care if the resident has dementia and is unable to say no to the male carer input, which feels really wrong to me. We are in the middle of a huge debate about trans women getting access to female spaces yet the issues of males having ‘access’ to some of our most vulnerable female members of society is not really considered.

The level of waste is truly shocking. An example is that last week we received a 3 month supply of high fluoride toothpaste – around 120 tubes. Since the toothpaste is prescribed, it is labelled with an individual resident’s name, meaning it cannot be given to another resident and if it is not used, it will be returned to the pharmacy and destroyed. I would estimate that about 90% of the residents who are prescribed this toothpaste cannot have their teeth brushed because they don’t consent to it (evidenced through spitting at you, hitting you and spitting it out) they choke when you try to do it or they are simply too weak to have it done to them/ can’t open their mouth etc.

The amount of medicines the residents are on is also eye opening. We have 95 year olds who are very frail and have less than 6 months to live still getting anti-cholesterol medications, folic acid and iron supplements and the like. A lot of the time, and I mean a lot, the medications are not tolerated by the residents (tablets too big even when halved and if effervescent is available, too big a volume to drink). Those with dementia just spit the tablets out. Last week we returned about 200 high protein drinks to the pharmacy for destruction as they hadn’t been used and were out of date.

But you cannot get a GP to stop prescribing as they don’t want to look like they are not treating the resident well. No one seems brave enough to say ….”look, this person is not going to benefit from cholesterol lowering drugs so lets just stop them”. In my palliative care practice, someone at the end of life had their medications stopped and were only on end of life meds to palliate symptoms.
I’m not talking about meds that help such as pain killers – but those that are just not going to add anything to the quality of the resident’s life. So we have all this money being spent on meds, high energy drinks, toothpaste etc but we can’t buy enough pressure relieving mattresses or employ more staff, both of which would do more to help provide better care.

We have one lady at the moment (aged 98) who is very frail and cognitively impaired. She has contractures, her skin is like tissue paper and is constantly tearing, she is doubly incontinent, unable to swallow much and is in a lot of pain.
But the GP won’t prescribe her morphine as he feels it is too strong for her frail state – if she had terminal cancer, no-one would think twice. She screams out all night, asking to be ‘put to sleep’, upsetting other residents and keeping them awake. We cannot sedate her – she is prescribed a medication for agitation, but she refuses to swallow it. In her lucid moments, she describes how her life is a living hell, she feels trapped in a decaying body and just wants to die.

I truly think we have lost our way when it comes to care of the elderly. People aren’t allowed to just get old and die anymore – its like we want to keep them living but for what? I’m not talking about treating reversible things which cause distress like urine infections – but really, what is the point in giving vitamin D tablets or iron supplements to someone who will likely die in a few weeks.

I don’t know what to do with regards to my employment – I want to remain and do the best I can for the residents but I am getting more depressed and frustrated at work. I spend around two hours of a 12 hour shift writing about care rather than actually providing the care. This is how long it takes to update the residents daily care plans – so I will be writing things like “Betty enjoys sitting in the garden and reminiscing about her time as a teacher” – but I can’t actually find the time to sit and talk with her and we can’t spare anyone to take her to the garden.

So AIBU to leave my job because I am finding it upsetting?
YABU – you have taken a role with vulnerable people and you need to stay and help provide care for them.
YANBU – you need to protect your own mental health and leave the work to those who can cope better with it.

OP posts:
mamabear715 · 18/02/2023 13:40

Oh, bless you, @2023forme
You sound such a caring person in such an awful situation.. those poor, poor old ladies..
My mum was in a nursing home - she died last summer - & it was really top end, (luckily mum had savings to pay for her own care) so I guess they had more staff, I know it's really hard to attract new staff at the moment.
Tbh, I really don't think it's good for you personally to be in that situation. I think it will drag you down until you end up depressed & on meds yourself. I thank you for the information on the supplements prescribed too. My mum's carers really went the extra mile but they seemed to despise the GP's at times, it just seemed like ticky boxes for them, the lovely home manager was always on the phone to them asking for help. :-(

Timeforachangeisitnot · 18/02/2023 13:52

Thank you for your informed and well written post OP. I am so sorry that you are suffering yourself from trying to do your utmost.
My own parents avoided the need for care, enjoying pretty good health until, the very end, and died at home. My MIL was not so lucky, and was in a care home, with some early dementia. DH and I were extremely frustrated at the medical, and in one case, surgical, interventions, when it was utterly clear that she was not going to get better. She was noted as DNAR , but they went ahead with intervention ( not CPR of course) to ensure they were not accused of doing harm.
Each intervention, with its move to hospital, took a toll on her, and when she died , she was still on a huge numbers of meds, they nothing that would comfort her or remove her pain.
The care staff were lovely, but hamstrung by the GP / Hospital . I really just want a little blue pill when it’s my turn.

HolyZarquonsSingingSeals · 18/02/2023 14:06

Anyone can leave any job if it is not right for them.

cptartapp · 18/02/2023 14:14

I've been a nurse for 33 years, many of those as a district nurse visiting people in care homes. I agree, there are too many people living too long with a very negligible quality of life at great cost.
A great waste in people's own homes too. Thousands of pounds worth of dressings and medications stockpiled by those that don't pay for them.
But I do have some sympathy for GP's now working in general practice. The sad fact is they have thousands of very frail, elderly with multiple co-morbidities on their books. Almost impossible to keep on top of.

2023forme · 18/02/2023 14:16

@mamabear715 - the care home I am in is considered top end. It gets great reviews from families and excellent care commission inspection reports. I used to support student nurses on placement and some of those were in 'care' homes which provided anything but good care - we were always having to remove students owning to it but the Uni was so desperate for placements they always ended up using the care homes again. It probably isn't great for me - I have a problem with alcohol use disorder and the last thing I want is to be turning to the bottle again. But the residents are always so greatful when they see its me thats on shift, that I'd feel terribly guilty.

OP posts:
2023forme · 18/02/2023 14:20

@Timeforachangeisitnot - I am going to do an advance directive next week. No way am I going to drag my life out with useless interventions and I don't want to leave too late until I may not have capacity to do it.

I call it defensive practice - doing things to avoid a complaint/suggestion that they are ageist and haven't done enough. It was even worse during the pandemic when they were admitting near corpses to hospital and doing full stage interventions to avoid "another covid death" in a 100 year old with multiple medical conditions.

OP posts:
2023forme · 18/02/2023 14:23

@cptartapp - my friend got a job in NHS procurement and went out with a district nurse once just to get a feel for health care in the community. She was agog at the number of incontinence pads getting used to line cat litter trays, under plant pots, catching drips in bathrooms etc! People would open their cupboards and ensure drinks would fall out! I don't think it helps that prescriptions are free in Scotland - I think if people did have to pay, they would think twice although admittedly there is a down side to charging for prescriptions.

But yes - too many people living too long - one of the downsides of the 'success' of modern medicine.

OP posts:
WhereIsMumHiding3 · 18/02/2023 14:27

@2023forme
Is this a dual registered home (taking people with residential as well as nursing home level needs?)

I've counted up 7 members of staff only one of which is a registered nurse. If this is a nursing home that seems inadequate staffing level
Are repositions taking place as frequent as carecplans state is feeding taking place as it should? Are buzzers within reach or if not hourly checks being done?

If they're not, the charts will evidence this - weight loss, pressure areas, and you'll have a pit of safeguardings that will hit the fan. Do you believe residents are being neglected?

As a registered nurse if you believe residents are being neglected you have a duty to whistleblow

I'd give notice and leave an establishment if I felt it was unsafe and whistleblow to CQC If you mention the clients you feel are being neglected then CQC and social workers will look into those cases in specific during safeguarding enquiry

Aleaiactaest · 18/02/2023 14:28

I think it is very important that people speak up and that the laws change. Everyone needs a living will, we need lots of people campaigning for this. Huge wastage and not fair on these elderly people who have no say and all dignity taken away. We would never do this to our pets so why is it ok to do it to our elderly? I wonder if this kind of issue is better in a private health care system where they just refuse to pay up beyond a certain point when there is no need to? Or do other European countries have the same issue?

willingtolearn · 18/02/2023 14:29

A brilliant post and it echoes some experiences I have also had, and similar concerns.

I think we are still 'doing things because we can' without thinking about what the people we are doing these things to want and what they are actually consenting to.

I also think that because most people don't get to see this happening, they don't think about it or make assumptions that it never happens and that all is well.

For you personally, I think it is time to move on. You have done a fantastic job, but it is time to care for yourself.

WhereIsMumHiding3 · 18/02/2023 14:30

I visit lots of wonderful nursing and residential homes that aren't short staffed

Usually at level of agency workers regularly being used every shift that's an issue with management of the carehome
Unless they are regular bank workers use of random agency workers on a very regular basis who are unfamiliar with residents is a flag

2023forme · 18/02/2023 14:53

WhereIsMumHiding3 · 18/02/2023 14:27

@2023forme
Is this a dual registered home (taking people with residential as well as nursing home level needs?)

I've counted up 7 members of staff only one of which is a registered nurse. If this is a nursing home that seems inadequate staffing level
Are repositions taking place as frequent as carecplans state is feeding taking place as it should? Are buzzers within reach or if not hourly checks being done?

If they're not, the charts will evidence this - weight loss, pressure areas, and you'll have a pit of safeguardings that will hit the fan. Do you believe residents are being neglected?

As a registered nurse if you believe residents are being neglected you have a duty to whistleblow

I'd give notice and leave an establishment if I felt it was unsafe and whistleblow to CQC If you mention the clients you feel are being neglected then CQC and social workers will look into those cases in specific during safeguarding enquiry

Is this a dual registered home (taking people with residential as well as nursing home level needs?) The home is purely nursing home - no residential.

I've counted up 7 members of staff only one of which is a registered nurse. If this is a nursing home that seems inadequate staffing level
Are repositions taking place as frequent as carecplans state is feeding taking place as it should? Are buzzers within reach or if not hourly checks being done?

I can't honestly say this is the case. On night shift, we have three carers and one RGN. When you factor in breaks for the carers (I rarely get a break) and the paperwork, medicine audits etc I need to do as the RGN, it leaves two on the floor most of the night. If we have someone who is really agitated, a fall or someone for example with copious diarrhoea, the two carers can be in with a resident for up to half an hour. If someone needs help when they are doing that, I will leave the paperwork/audits and go to help but invariably I need another carer as I can't reposition/carry out continence care myself. If I have to do a lot of hands on, I usually have to work another hour at the end of my shift to do the paperwork I didn't get done and I rarely get paid for that hour - so that's two hours I am working without pay - plus we have to go in 15 minutes early to get the handover as there is no crossover of hours like there is in the NHS (my shift starts at 8pm and the day shift ends at 8pm so without the nurses going in 15 minutes early, there is no crossover time). Hourly checks are done but if a resident soils themself or falls out of bed five minutes after the hourly check, then they are not always noticed.

If they're not, the charts will evidence this - weight loss, pressure areas, and you'll have a pit of safeguardings that will hit the fan. Do you believe residents are being neglected? In a perverse way, it would be easier if they were being neglected because then changes could be made. I do think the staff are doing their absolute best but I believe its simply not possible to provide the level of care needed - that was kinda my main point. You would need two carers for each resident 24/7 which is never going to happen. Jackie Stewart (ex racing driver) was on TV the other week talking about his wife's dementia and he said they had employed 7 live in dementia nurses to care for her so she had two carers 24/7.

As a registered nurse if you believe residents are being neglected you have a duty to whistleblow - I am acutely aware of this having done it multiple times in the past when supporting students on placement.

I'd give notice and leave an establishment if I felt it was unsafe and whistleblow to CQC If you mention the clients you feel are being neglected then CQC and social workers will look into those cases in specific during safeguarding enquiry - yeah, but I genuinely don't believe anything will change. There are simply not enough people willing to do the job - you can do night fill in Asda for the same money and not be spat at, bitten, punched etc. People would pay more for someone to paint their front room that for a nurse.

OP posts:
2023forme · 18/02/2023 14:55

WhereIsMumHiding3 · 18/02/2023 14:30

I visit lots of wonderful nursing and residential homes that aren't short staffed

Usually at level of agency workers regularly being used every shift that's an issue with management of the carehome
Unless they are regular bank workers use of random agency workers on a very regular basis who are unfamiliar with residents is a flag

In my experience, this is absolutely the case - agency staff on almost every shift. I am in Scotland and there are literally thousands of empty posts in care homes post Brexit. Why would you take on a full time post when you can do agency for at least double the money?

OP posts:
MatildaTheCat · 18/02/2023 15:06

There is so much wrong in elderly care. You sound wonderful.

My darling Dad was as weak as a kitten, virtually non verbal and absolutely dependent on kind care for his needs. Yet he was denied cot sides on his bed ‘because they are dangerous if someone tries to claim out’. The ‘solution’ was to put a mattress on the floor to fall on. Despite this meaning he was permanently sporting black eyes and possible fractures ( advanced bony secondaries). I fought and failed. The system said no.

My friend’s DF was taken off his antipsychotic medication when he had appalling dementia symptoms because it might affect his heart.

I have too much experience of nursing and care homes. One of my main priorities in life now is to have enough money to pay for the best care.

Please don’t leave unless you need to for your own sanity. A decent manager on a shift leads high standards across the team.

Cuppasoupmonster · 18/02/2023 15:16

Sounds like this thread should tie in nicely with the assisted dying one. The staffing level is one issue but it sounds like these people have no quality of life.

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 18/02/2023 15:23

OP, your post is the current NHS and social care problems in a nutshell.

And no amount of whistleblowing is going to make the massive changes that need to be made - we need to spend more money on social care, se need to allow/encourage clinicians to make brave decisions and reward them for doing so, and we need to encourage people to have sensible conversations about quality of life and allowing a natural death.

I can complete understand if you want to leave but I hope you won't.

Merryoldgoat · 18/02/2023 15:26

What a thought provoking thread.

It sounds very upsetting OP but truly I’d never thought about sone of those things.

You absolutely cannot put yourself last here and if leaving would give you some relief then you should.

KangarooKenny · 18/02/2023 15:27

Back in the 80’s I worked in a small nursing home with 11 residents. There was always 2 members of staff on, and we did the washing, drying and ironing too.
I agree about people existing in homes, it seems such a waste. Many of them don’t even get visitors.

MarshaMelrose · 18/02/2023 15:27

I've just been looking at a home for my mum. I've visited just about every one in my area. I know exactly which one I want to go in when my time comes and am now planning for what happens if I get dementia or need nursing care.
My mum has been extremely lucky to have me and my sister checking everything out for her. She couldn't have done it on her own.
The care system is appalling and pretty much pot luck. The CQC let homes get away with far too much before taking action.
The waste in the NHS is shocking. I've seen it in the deliveries that I've been watching when visiting homes. It's no surprise to me that it's always complaining it has no money.

pingopango · 18/02/2023 15:27

MatildaTheCat · 18/02/2023 15:06

There is so much wrong in elderly care. You sound wonderful.

My darling Dad was as weak as a kitten, virtually non verbal and absolutely dependent on kind care for his needs. Yet he was denied cot sides on his bed ‘because they are dangerous if someone tries to claim out’. The ‘solution’ was to put a mattress on the floor to fall on. Despite this meaning he was permanently sporting black eyes and possible fractures ( advanced bony secondaries). I fought and failed. The system said no.

My friend’s DF was taken off his antipsychotic medication when he had appalling dementia symptoms because it might affect his heart.

I have too much experience of nursing and care homes. One of my main priorities in life now is to have enough money to pay for the best care.

Please don’t leave unless you need to for your own sanity. A decent manager on a shift leads high standards across the team.

I'm sorry you experienced this. Cotsidescare a really tricky one because there have been several deaths due to entrapment, so they are only used in very specific circumstances with a clear risk assessment. Usually if someone is completely immobile (in which case they wouldn't be falling out of bed), or if they have 24hr care so are always supervised they would be suitable. Otherwise they should be prescribed a floor bed with a crash mat. The floor bed is the same height as the mat so a person can't "fall", only roll onto the crash mat if they do move. I would have looked at how your dad kept falling out of bed. Why was he moving so much to cause that?
FlowersFlowers

Cuppasoupmonster · 18/02/2023 15:28

It will be unpopular but I don’t believe in life saving interventions for the over 90s, just pain relief.

user1471556818 · 18/02/2023 15:28

Ex nurse here I just want to say thank you for such a well written post
Hugs to you for caring no advice just don't get burnt out from this

pingopango · 18/02/2023 15:31

OP I work in an MDT which includes GPs and pharmacists, and one if the key things we do is review meds and remove those that have no benefit. Such as, for example, statins for the frail elderly. They also support with appropriate pain meds too as no one should have to live with that level of pain.
So thankfully not all you write about is universal.

MatildaTheCat · 18/02/2023 15:33

@pingopango thanks. When he was being cared for at home he had padded cot sides and they were great. Once he was in residential care it was a blanket ‘no’. I think he just shifted around in bed sometimes- he was frequently lying or sitting in sodden incontinence pads and had pressure sores so in general he was uncomfortable and sad.

Then lockdown came and then covid arrived. So that was that.

Sorry for the rant.

pingopango · 18/02/2023 15:33

Cuppasoupmonster · 18/02/2023 15:28

It will be unpopular but I don’t believe in life saving interventions for the over 90s, just pain relief.

You can't have that as a blanket rule, it's just not appropriate. Look at David Attenborough. He's 96. If he developed a chest infection or pneumonia and it was treatable would you refuse and just offer pain meds?