To not be surprised the NHS is in trouble…

[Itmakesnosensetome]

We’re on holiday in Tenerife. We’re in a pretty nice hotel, fairly pricey so quite a lot of wealthy retired people . Pretty much every single person is very overweight or obese. I don’t mean a bit of a tum and hips- I’m talking huge, hard bellies on the men and massive women. there has always been overweight people but this feels unbelievable. There are some Spanish, Norwegian and Swedish people and none of them are fat - how can the NHS cope with this problem?

@LaMarschallin Tom Kerridge's book, The Dopamine Diet, is very useful on low carb food. I know you didn't ask for cookbook recommendations, but it walks a sensible line between cheffy and healthy.

EffortlessDesmond

Thank you - that's really kind!
And you're right - that's one I've included in my collection after learning a bit about low-carb eating and discovering that diabetes doesn't just mean giving up cakes, biscuits and chocolate. I really miss bagels and pasta and jacket potatoes <sniffle>
And I know I can have some of those things occasionally, but I do miss a big fish and chip supper from the local chipper.

Great minds @LaMarschallin ! I've got another one that's better, but it's so old it's bound to be OOP. The New High Protein Diet by a Dr Clark. It's a slightly more veg-oriented version of keto.

Oh yay another fatphobic post.

The NHS is in crisis because of the long reigning Tory government and the fact we have far too many people in the country than services can cope with.

The irony is that most people on this forum will likely cost more than many overweight people - do you have any idea how expensive it is for people to have children on the NHS?

EffortlessDesmond

The New High Protein Diet by a Dr Clark. It's a slightly more veg-oriented version of keto.

That sounds just the ticket. If it is OOP, I'm an inveterate haunter of 2nd hand bookshops, so maybe...

According to every known metric I'm in calorie deficit every single day by hundreds of calories.

I lost weight initially when I started this new lifestyle of exercise and carefully managed food, but have firmly plateaued and stayed that way for 2 years. It's great I reduced my BMI from 43 to 35, but 35 is still too fucking big.

My doctors don't know what to suggest beyond VLC diet, which isn't sustainable or safe with the exercising I do. They prefer that I keep running and walking regularly.

Yes there are lazy/greedy people who are obese, but not all of us are. Should the ones doing their best be denied NHS treatment?

Everyone is purposefully avoiding answering this question.

This thread is really hurting me. I was a size 8-10 till I got sick. Then 5 years of being dismissed by doctors. And now on heavy steroids that have made me balloon to the point I don't recognise myself. Yet is clear that everyone, medical professionals included, is looking at me and judging . Its utterly shit. I'm not particularly vain, I can live with my reflection, but the endless judging is awful.

No, I don't think the people who are obese but trying very hard to reduce BMI via diet and exercise should be denied treatment. The body is adept at adapting to periods of famine, and adjusts itself accordingly. Apparently, this is why 5:2 regimes work well, because a 24hr fast is not long enough for the metabolism to adapt to compensate. There was something about it in one of the serious papers this morning, which I think came from research arising out of the Zoe Project.

Not everyone is judging - and the people who are are thick twats.

Im embarrassed for people like the OP TBH. I wish they’d just admit they want to bash people they don’t find attractive

Rather than faux concern about health services

I can be sympathetic to genuine posters; it doesn't render my concern about health services faux @TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl. I am interested in public policy and public health and politics.

Only those "working very hard via diet and exercise" ?
Fuck off.

Medicines caused my weight gain. And they still haven't got my symptoms stable enough to enable me to exercise regularly. I bloody love exercise! I used to run to the pool then swim a couple of miles and run home. I used to paddle board or kayak or cycle for hours. Now I can only walk a few hundred metres before I lose the ability to send signals to my muscles. I have to rest several times when brushing my hair because I start losing the ability to send signals to my muscles. Are you saying I don't deserve NHS treatment?

I was talking about the OP, I hadn’t actually read your posts!

There should be different rates of national insurance just like there are every other type of insurance. People who eat healthily and do a lot of exercise should pay half rate, people who who eat fairly healthily and do some exercise should pay standard rate, and people who eat unhealthily, smoke/drink alcohol, take drugs and do little to no exercise should pay double rate. That way there would be a clear financial incentive for people to invest time and effort in improving their health and fitness.

OK I’ve just tear your posts.

And I don’t have time for the people with the school of thought that a health service should go “Got yourself into this problem? Get yourself out of it” Does the same apply to childbirth emergencies, COVID, flu, people who crash their car and need intensive care etc?

Or just fat people?

Years ago when fat was demonised it should have been sugar, can't think why that decision was made. It's why it's easier to lose weight on LC diets than LF. And those fats should be natural like butter or olive oils not plastic margarine crap.

OK genius so on an operational level, how does that work? And who pays for the man power it will take to police that, check for fraud, bring cases against rule breakers, etc? That’s A LOT of admin. It will we just trust people to self declare?

Od genuinely like to know your answer.

And what about all the people like me , who are unable to exercise for years because doctors dismiss their symptoms only to eventually find out they were seriously ill? Because with my condition (myasthenia gravis) for instance, it is not unusual to go many many years before a diagnosis. Most of us loved exercise and grieve for the hobbies we have had to give up. But you would have the undiagnosed pay more NI ? I went back and forth to GPs for years being told there was nothing wrong before an optician thankfully spotted my ptosis and asked the doctor to refer me to neurology.

@SweetSakura, there's no need to go off at me with quite such vitriol. I am sorry your illness and the treatment for it has caused your weight gain and certain that you'd prefer a cure.

I also understand that "healthy" food generally means more expensive and that anyone who is poor in time or money may struggle to follow the well-known advice. I don't know the answers but am trying to keep pace with informed opinion.

Exactly, also those who do adrenaline sports (or maybe all sports - my son has broken his arm twice playing football.... Half the kids in a&e were there in football kit...)...

What about those who get a respiratory disease... They could have shielded instead. Or those who get food poisoning, maybe shouldn't have eaten at that restaurant ..

Yes @Florenz adding to my question - what about disabled people who are healthy but can’t exercise? Do they get marked down?

What if a healthy person has a car accident and is in intensive care for 6 weeks - does their NI contribution go up? Who is managing and adminning all of this? It’s an awful lot of work!

It’s almost like people should think it through before they spout absolutely ridiculous unachievable drivel.

Funnily enough the OP herself is a very keen skier! Why should she get healthcare when she participates in a sport by which she could do serious and permanent damage to her health?

So why does Spain have such a high obesity rate?

How would you get out of work addicts to pay? What about really fit drug users? Then we have the prison population. It costs society a fortune from a person being charged to the end of their incarceration. Those who have children under SS. Many groups could never pay enough into the system for what they use. According to many MNers, fat people are below child rapists and killers. We could do a individual spending system. I could use mine on being fat because in our family we have home births without even needing stitches. We are all very healthy, then drop dead. How the hell would it be policed?

"So why does Spain have such a high obesity rate?"

Across Europe, obesity is linked with poverty. Spain and France, shock horror, have obese people as well.