Teacher shouting at Dd to eat

[Makesmewanttogohome]

We’re in another European country, more emphasis is placed on eating and I’d heard stories of kids in school being forced to eat their lunch etc ( or *Strongly encouraged)
Knowing this, I mentioned to the teacher when Dd started school that I was fine if she didn’t want to eat lunch etc and that she eats well at home and I’m not worried if she misses a meal etc. Dd also gets constipated easily and suffers tummy troubles sometimes and gets full and doesn’t want to eat (teacher knows all this)
At the end of today, the assistant came to me with a very serious face, I was thinking ‘God, what’s she done?’ 🙈 She then said that Dd didn’t eat any of her lunch, not one bit, I said ‘Oh were you not hungry?’ To Dd, she said no, I said to the assistant it was fine, she ate lots last night and was no problem, she looked a bit confused.
DD’s just been sat having a snack (she’s eating fine) then told me she was crying at lunch because her teacher and dinner assistant were shouting at her to eat, she basically said the word ‘Eat’ where we are and said the teacher was shouting it. Dd then said she wasn’t allowed fruit because the teacher was shouting that if she didn’t eat, she couldn’t have the fruit, I understand this a bit more, but am feeling really pissed off that she’s been made to cry for not feeling hungry and eating, surely she knows when she’s hungry like we all do?
Aibu here? Don’t want to come across as a precious parent but ffs

You probably need the opinion of other parents in the country you're in tbh
rather than predominantly UK based opinions so you can decide what the best move is.

What you've described doesn't sound great to me but you're unlikely to get very far if how you want your dd treated goes against cultural norms other parents are all happy with.

I’d speak to the head and inform him about how your dd saw teachers treatment of boy

once again mumsnet and their weird attitude towards teaching staff, they do get things wrong you know, they aren't perfect but apparently on here they can do no wrong

You should talk to them about the food issue, though it does sound like she would benefit from some of the suggestions that other posters have made. They are not going to be thrilled with the idea of letting her eat nothing and opening themselves up to her being hungry and whiny later in the day, and then potentially having to give her a snack and having other children get upset about it. Perhaps if she’s not very hungry she can just eat a snack at lunch rather than nothing.

It is unlikely that she was shouted at so I would not mention this. How do you speak to her at home? Do you have a husband/partner? Is she the only/first child? The most likely situation is that she isn’t used to hearing stern tones or the louder voice needed to talk over a gaggle of young children so she calls it “shouting” when it’s not. You should probably explain the difference to her so that she knows. Single children in particular are often used to a much quieter environment at home and have a bit of culture shock when they are in a place with more children and noise.

@EllieM27 🙄She shouted at her, Dd is used to shouting too

Thing is @Makesmewanttogohome young children often do interpret admonishment as shouting even when voices haven’t been raised. Maybe your daughter was shouted at but actually you don’t know that. It would be a good thing for you to chat to the parent about expectations in the school and help your daughter adjust to them where possible, the school is unlikely to change to suit you.

Trying to see someone else's perspective is not the same thing as declaring that they're in the right.

It's trying to understand why they might be doing what they're doing, so you can try to think of approaches to the problem which take those possible perspectives into account, rather than just being faced with a situation where people are doing inexplicable things you don't like, and you don't know what they want or how they might be persuaded to give you what you want.

I am confused, you said she wasn't hungry but then wanted to eat the fruit? So she was hungry but maybe didn't want to eat what was on offer?

I'm very sorry you were abused, but this isn't the right approach. A child is upset for a reason, just because other children sadly had worse treatment, doesn't mean this child should be left to suffer.

she wasn't hungry for a full meal obviously, jesus christ no wonder so many kids grow up with eating disorders, fruit is not the same as having a full hot meal, it's astounding that so many people are defending a staff member making an child cry by shouting at them, something the staff themselves admitted too

I would play hell that a small child with constipation problems was refused fruit.

If your DD was shouted at to eat, to the point she cried, then that's not OK. It's worth talking through with the school though to understand it from their POV. Do you have mum friends in the area that you could talk to about it if it's a cultural expectation?

From a school's perspective, they may see it as training small children that eating is at lunchtime, rather than grazing during the day, and they are looking to 'train' kids to do that. Schools work to timetables with times scheduled for eating. Or if your child is small/slight they may be concerned if she isn't eating. Schools are always looking from a safeguarding perspective too, regarding food and behaviour. Of course, shouting at the child will make that worse, so definitely go in for a chat and find out where they are coming from on this.

You need to find out what actually happened rather than straightaway take the word of a 4-year old as truth.

If the rule is that a child who doesn't eat dinner doesn't get fruit then you need to talk to them about that.

But if your child 'wasn't hungry' but then wanted fruit... she clearly was hungry. Maybe she didn't want what was on offer?

Maybe she should take a packed lunch and tell them you don't mind what she eats from it, just send it home with uneaten items in it. A lot of parents though do complain that their kids don't eat all their paid for dinner and that staff should try harder to get them to eat it. They like the idea of them having a cooked dinner and to try new things but at home would just give them what they want whilst they wander around or watch tv. It's not consistent

I had a horrible dinner lady when I was little, one day the lunch was Frankfurters and lumpy mashed potato, 2 of my least favourite foods. She stood over me shouting and forced me to eat them, which I did, and then instantly vomited all over evil dinner lady - instant karma!

As others have said, just speak to the school again and tell them that you do not want your DD to be made to eat under any circumstances.

Is it a culture where there are fairly rigid expectations of children complying with social norms?

i.e.
We eat at mealtimes
We do what our teacher tells us

You may be experiencing a culture clash here.

Maybe approach it from a medical pov - "DD is not to be forced to eat and is to be allowed fruit"...

Though they may ask you for a note from the doctor to back that up.

I take a 4yo saying they've been shouted at with a pinch of salt tbh. Little children say they've been shouted at if a voice is slightly raised or in a tone more matter-of-fact than their mum would use.

I wouldn't withhold fruit, no, I'd be pleased they were eating something.

Just repeat your instruction, add that you're happy for her to just eat fruit if necessary, and hope the message gets taken on board this time.

I'd actually check on the rules / policy.

Different schools have different rules and if this is France then French children are taught to eat what they are given when they are given it.

I had a visitor from France and said she didn't need to eat anything if she didn't like it (I'd made steak and kidney pudding) and she said that would be an insult to the person cooking.

Teacher shouldn’t have shouted.

Im quite surprised at your lack of concern over your daughters eating habits though. You mention that she had eaten well the night before but didn’t want her lunch and no mention of breakfast. A four year old should definitely be eating more than that and it would probably be a good idea to work with the school re how to resolve the lack of eating. If she’s refusing meals because it makes her uncomfortable than she needs to be checked over by a doc.

I will repeat though that the teacher handled it badly.

A 4 year old with constipation should definitely be checked over by a doctor - probably not enough fibre in diet?

Also perhaps she is eating too much for her main meal at night, or too late.

You know the old proverb ... "Breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, supper like a pauper"!

While shouting is not on, the child will also not have another chance to eat until 4.30 if you are in France. Surely allowing a child to go from 8.30 to 4.30 with nothing to eat is a concern. I don't think allowing your child to skip the only meal is a good idea - there is no snacking in French schools.

In French cantine children are expected to at least taste everything, and at maternelle/primary there is generally no choice of meal but you will get a variety of courses. You need to work with the school to encourage your child to at least try to eat lunch or take her home for the 2 hour break. Im guessing it is probably not the teacher supervising either but the assistant or cantine staff

Op… your daughter has “stomach issues”, gets constipated easily and has a low and restricted appetite… have you consulted any medics on this?

I would not believe that an adult shouted just because a 4 year old said so. My son used to say people shouted when they were just stern with him. The fruit thing? I'd not be worried about that personally as we also did not let the kids have the sugary stuff if they'd not eaten the savoury. I second seeing someone medical - what is causing such bad constipation? Sounds miserable for your daughter.

They do this in the uk too a school I’ve worked at would make the children eat a certain amount of food before they can leave the lunch hall and one assistant was shouty. I hated it, if they asked me wether they can clear their plate away I’d let them no matter how little they ate. My child has constipation and when they start school il be informing them I don’t mind how little is eaten.

@howmanybicycles

You should believe it , alot of teachers/assistants take the old school approach and are very strict.