Teacher shouting at Dd to eat

[Makesmewanttogohome]

We’re in another European country, more emphasis is placed on eating and I’d heard stories of kids in school being forced to eat their lunch etc ( or *Strongly encouraged)
Knowing this, I mentioned to the teacher when Dd started school that I was fine if she didn’t want to eat lunch etc and that she eats well at home and I’m not worried if she misses a meal etc. Dd also gets constipated easily and suffers tummy troubles sometimes and gets full and doesn’t want to eat (teacher knows all this)
At the end of today, the assistant came to me with a very serious face, I was thinking ‘God, what’s she done?’ 🙈 She then said that Dd didn’t eat any of her lunch, not one bit, I said ‘Oh were you not hungry?’ To Dd, she said no, I said to the assistant it was fine, she ate lots last night and was no problem, she looked a bit confused.
DD’s just been sat having a snack (she’s eating fine) then told me she was crying at lunch because her teacher and dinner assistant were shouting at her to eat, she basically said the word ‘Eat’ where we are and said the teacher was shouting it. Dd then said she wasn’t allowed fruit because the teacher was shouting that if she didn’t eat, she couldn’t have the fruit, I understand this a bit more, but am feeling really pissed off that she’s been made to cry for not feeling hungry and eating, surely she knows when she’s hungry like we all do?
Aibu here? Don’t want to come across as a precious parent but ffs

@BatshitBanshee I know, right 🤷🏻‍♀️

Would the teacher like it if she was feeling full one day/wasn’t hungry/didn’t like the food-for whatever reason just didn’t want to eat and someone much bigger and scarier than her was shouting ‘EAT!’ To her
Pissed off the more I think about it

Get off Mumsnet then and just arrange to talk to her daughters teacher!m

simply getting more pissed off on mumsnet isn’t going to help your daughter tomorrow at lunchtime, is it?

I’d be writing to the school telling them categorically your dd is not to be forced to eat but allowed to eat what she chooses, including the fruit. And reiterate your dd has constipation and ask for justification as to why the fruit was refused as your dd was prevented from eating the only foods her body felt it could process.

@Ursuladevinia82 I’m going to talk to the teacher tomorrow.
I've written on here for others views

Yeah they shouldn't shout at her to eat. I'm in my 20s now but even when I was in school we had the lunchtime assistants making us finish all of our lunchbox and drink all of our drink. I remember dreading it as I wasn't always hungry enough to finish everything and being nervous about being told off actually made it worse. This ended when I was 9 though as I moved to a bigger school with less lunchtime monitoring. It's not the best way to build a healthy relationship with food but I do understand why the teachers have to do it as if the kids didn't eat, the parents wouldn't be happy with that either.

As others have suggested, contact the school and in the first instance maybe just let them know that you have no concerns if your DD doesn't always finish her food so in future she doesn't need to be made to finish her lunch? Seeing how they react to that would determine the next steps.

I read a lot about constipation when my DS was little; the sugars in fruit can be a helpful natural way of moving things along so actually your DDs body was probably telling her exactly what she needed to eat. You could mention to the teacher that you would prefer she ate only fruit than nothing?

I'm a teacher and can tell you that we do get a fair number of parental complaints from people concerned that we didn't try hard enough to encourage their child to eat their lunch - because they went home hungry, or told their parents they were sad and hungry all afternoon, or because parents pay for them and are annoyed that they didn't get their money's worth.

I think your original message - that you don't mind if she doesn't eat anything - has been forgotten. I would put it in writing so that it can be shared with all midday staff.

Wow. This would be a red flag to me , I’m sorry I am sure people will not agree, but I would be seriously on the war path. Children should never be force fed, and let’s be honest that is what this is. Totally unacceptable. Child could be Ill for all they know. How dare they do this to children.

@donttellmehesalive Fair enough, but would you shout at them to eat and make them cry?
Would you withhold the only thing they did want to eat/feel like eating -a piece of fruit and tell them it was their punishment as they didn’t eat their other food? Whilst all
the other children ate their fruit?

I guess from their point of view, it might be that the majority of parents expect staff to ensure that children eat the food that's been paid for so that parents haven't wasted their money, and so the children can pay attention through the afternoon and aren't coming out of preschool tetchy and unmanageable.

In that context, a parent who wants their child treated differently from the others, so that they're allowed to refuse lunch and go straight to the fruit instead, could feel difficult and disruptive to have to manage in among all the other preschoolers who are told that the rule is that they need to eat their lunch and then their fruit.

@Porkyporkchop Totally agree!

@JarByTheDoor Yes, the not having the fruit for dessert is perhaps a grey area as I can see that being unfair if children see her having fruit but no dinner etc and they’re not allowed.
But, the shouting at her to eat and reducing her to tears if she’s not hungry isn’t on

Why does it sometimes feel that on mumsnet teachers can do no wrong

She's only 4.5yrs old imagine making a child of that age week any child for that matter cry, that's gut wrenching

*well

Tbf it's really easy to make some children cry. And lots of children here "shouting" when an adult is being strict or telling them off.

I think if constipation has got to the stage where a child is not able to eat lunch then some medical intervention is necessary. No child works or plays well on an empty stomach.

Yes very much this. Other European countries aren’t as indulgent of fussy eaters. As the above poster says all the children are expected to follow all the rules, they can’t make an exception for your daughter or everyone will want their own exceptions made. It’s a sensible approach.

Let me guess, you are in France?

(I live in France!)

Yeah you do have a point. All children are different I just think it's sad to make a child cry for not being hungry.

I can totally empathise. We spent quite a few years in a different European country. The approach to eating really went against the grain for me and was very triggering as I was forced to eat as a child. However, pp are I think correct, it is what other parents expect so the school has to be consistent. Considering your child has some digestive issues though, surely they could take a slightly gentler touch with her?

All this pressure to eat lunch when you're not hungry FFS. Thie actually happened to me a couple of years ago but this was in a working environment! They started getting "really concerned" because I didn't want to eat anything

I was just going to ask if you’re in France too? We are as well and whilst my daughters school definitely isn’t like this at lunch I’ve heard from lots of friends about upsets at cantine. In general french teachers are a lot ‘shoutier’ and stricter, although we haven’t used the Uk school system so maybe I’m wrong. If it were my child I would either take out of cantine, at least for 2 days a week if possible or speak to the teacher and explain she was upset, how you treat food and meal times and hope there is improvement. I will say though that if you’re planning on staying France a long time (if this is where you are) then you need to do some research in the french school approach.

This happened at my primary school where we were 'forced' to eat everything. I ended up vomiting every day and having panic attacks until I was 21 when I was faced with a 'closed-in' eating situation.

I think it’s different with a small child though, they do need to eat. I’d be alarmed at the mother saying she had loads to eat least night, had she not eaten breakfast either, surely regular meals would be useful in getting the constipation issue solved? If the child has just started a French school and all the other children have been through a childcare setting where the expectations on them to eat were the same it’s going to take the OP’s daughter some time to adjust, but she will have to adjust as that’s the way they run schools. It would be more helpful for her if that were backed up at home. I also had a relative who had decades of experience as a TA and worked the breakfast club too. She told a boy one day in a non shouting voice to eat his toast as his mum had paid for it and next day parent complained he’d been shouted at. He hadn’t and your daughter was likely told rather than screamed at.

It sounds very like the French approach to food. Children are encouraged to eat what they are given but this sounds OTT. If you're not hungry then you're not hungry, end of. It's counter productive to try and force food on anyone, and cruel to do it to a young child.
When I lived in France, the local school had a neon sign at the entrance, giving the day's menu and a list of absent teachers, in that order. Says it all really.