Page 3 | Jobs without salaries....

Itspoonotpoop · 15/02/2023 15:05

It's like we can't even admit that HR Managers also juat want the money.

Nobody decides when they're a kid "oooh I want to work in HR when I'm a grown up and change da worlllld"

😂

Itspoonotpoop · 15/02/2023 15:07

Sorry for typos. Typing with a broken hand in cast!

PriamFarrl · 15/02/2023 15:29

OopsAnotherOne · 15/02/2023 14:57

THIS!! I feel this way when people talk about workers wanting a payrise/the strikers being "greedy", workers being "lazy" for leaving on time and not working for free for the good of the company - the whole reason people go to work is to earn money. That's literally it. I love my job, but I wouldn't be there if I wasn't being paid as I love spending time with my family even more. The whole reason I turn up and do the work is for money, no one in a "vocation" wants to work for free. If my job decided not to increase my wages for several years, or I was continuously getting a real-term pay cut, I'd complain because the work I was doing was no longer benefiting me in the same way it was when I started.

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I used to hate it when I worked in retail and I had to fart on in interviews about how much a loved the company and all that crap. No, the reason is that I need a job to get money and need someone who can work a till.

OopsAnotherOne · 15/02/2023 15:34

PriamFarrl · 15/02/2023 15:29

I used to hate it when I worked in retail and I had to fart on in interviews about how much a loved the company and all that crap. No, the reason is that I need a job to get money and need someone who can work a till.

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Hahah, yes!

"I want to be a waitress because I'm really passionate about ensuring that every customer goes away feeling satisfied with their meal and pleased with the service they received. I want to represent the company...." etc, because although that's all true, that's not why I wanted the job, I wanted money!

Whatsshecalled · 15/02/2023 15:41

Whatsshecalled · 15/02/2023 15:02

Job adverts with no salary are very common in my industry and they drive me nuts!! Along with everyone else i know its an incredibly irritating practice. Fine if the employer wants to keep a degree of flexibility but surely you can narrow it down to a band £-£ or a minimum £. I have, in the past seen a job I like and emailed to ask salary.....4 days later reply comes back and its rubbish or its OK but I've lost 4 days. Also means I cant use £ as a filter when searching, and obvs £ is the most useful filter as it's the only reason we go to work.

Oh, and also the fact that 'Director' now seems an acceptable way to describe any job from an Account manager in some organisations to a person in charge of a Dept of 200 people in other organisations it means that having an actual salary listed is really important (I know i can read the job description but if Im trying to filter down 400 jobs nationally and i can't do it by job title OR salary or location because WFH, then I have to read every single job description in full just to find out its a completely inappropriate role for me)

Original poster

SisterAct123 · 15/02/2023 15:54

Seasonofthewitch83 · 15/02/2023 12:56

HR recruitment here.

We do not list salary, for the reason that sometimes we may find a candidate who perhaps does not fit all the criteria and is not worth the salary we have budgeted, but we like them and can adapt the job description and responsibilities.

The same way we do not want to deter a fantastic candidate who may be above and beyond what we need and we would pay more in the role for.

That said, if anyone ever contacts me, I will always give them the salary range we are looking at.

Thank you and apologies all for my post

OP posts:

OoooohMatron · 15/02/2023 16:01

Seasonofthewitch83 · 15/02/2023 14:16

I would bin it.

If you want to ask the salary, you can call or email. You would be told its dependant one experience, and the general salary range we are looking at.

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Yay, let people waste their time applying for a job where the salary is lower than what they currently earn. I bet you're the type who doesn't give feedback when a candidate has been unsuccessful at interview aren't you?

Seasonofthewitch83 · 15/02/2023 16:18

OoooohMatron · 15/02/2023 16:01

Yay, let people waste their time applying for a job where the salary is lower than what they currently earn. I bet you're the type who doesn't give feedback when a candidate has been unsuccessful at interview aren't you?

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I disagree with not listing a salary for a job that makes you jump through hoops and spend ages on an application.

All we ask is that you send a CV.

I would expect a candidate to already have a ballpark figure for what the salary would be for a role given the industry and location when they applied. It's extremely rare that we have not been in the same salary range when negotiating a salary.

I always send a diplomatic response for feedback for unsuccessful applicants.

Eaterofcheese · 15/02/2023 17:22

Seasonofthewitch83 · 15/02/2023 16:18

I disagree with not listing a salary for a job that makes you jump through hoops and spend ages on an application.

All we ask is that you send a CV.

I would expect a candidate to already have a ballpark figure for what the salary would be for a role given the industry and location when they applied. It's extremely rare that we have not been in the same salary range when negotiating a salary.

I always send a diplomatic response for feedback for unsuccessful applicants.

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@Seasonofthewitch83 do you think that pay offers for white men tend to be higher than those for people of colour and women? If not does wage data by demographics at your company back this up? How do you ensure that unconscious bias doesn't impact the assessment of how much people are worth? Do you do anything to counter the fact that women (especially black women) are conditioned to ask for less to avoid appearing pushy it aggressive?

This isn't meant to be confrontational in any way. I'm just wondering if you can ever have parity around wages without transparency.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 15/02/2023 17:36

Eaterofcheese · 15/02/2023 17:22

@Seasonofthewitch83 do you think that pay offers for white men tend to be higher than those for people of colour and women? If not does wage data by demographics at your company back this up? How do you ensure that unconscious bias doesn't impact the assessment of how much people are worth? Do you do anything to counter the fact that women (especially black women) are conditioned to ask for less to avoid appearing pushy it aggressive?

This isn't meant to be confrontational in any way. I'm just wondering if you can ever have parity around wages without transparency.

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Really excellent questions!

It's hard for me to use my own personal experience in this particular role, as I already work in an industry that is overrun by white older men.

Do you think that pay offers for white men tend to be higher than those for people of colour and women?

In many industries, yes. In our own company, no and we have undertaken data analysis yearly to keep on top of this.

How do you ensure that unconscious bias doesn't impact the assessment of how much people are worth?

When candidates ask for a higher salary, the request has to be signed off by SMT with no personal details given e.g name. The decision is based on merit alone based on their experience.

Do you do anything to counter the fact that women (especially black women) are conditioned to ask for less to avoid appearing pushy it aggressive?

No - and this is a really good point that I am going to bring up - thank you.

SisterAct123 · 16/02/2023 16:52

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Ohreallyreally · 16/02/2023 17:18

Seasonofthewitch83 · 15/02/2023 14:16

I would bin it.

If you want to ask the salary, you can call or email. You would be told its dependant one experience, and the general salary range we are looking at.

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@Seasonofthewitch83

Then hopefully all the good candidates bin the application form.

"Depending on experience = to pay what you want, we will expect 5 years more experience than you have"

Newbuildhulahoops · 16/02/2023 17:20

Good candidates rarely do application forms.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 16/02/2023 17:27

Ohreallyreally · 16/02/2023 17:18

@Seasonofthewitch83

Then hopefully all the good candidates bin the application form.

"Depending on experience = to pay what you want, we will expect 5 years more experience than you have"

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Perhaps we are inadvertently taking advantage of working in an industry that is extremely attractive to people and we do not struggle with getting good applicants.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 16/02/2023 17:30

Newbuildhulahoops · 16/02/2023 17:20

Good candidates rarely do application forms.

I personally never never bothered filling out a lengthy application form. That is what my CV is for!

I recall Google having an extremely lengthy and time wasting interview process.

Lozzybear · 16/02/2023 17:35

In the State of California, new rules mean that employers have to publish the pay scale on job ads. I would like the UK to introduce something similar. I worked at a firm who was kicked up the arse by the gender pay gap rules when they were introduced. Like many females in the company, I was awarded a very decent pay rise the first year the reporting came in. I wonder why?!!!

jgw1 · 16/02/2023 17:44

Seasonofthewitch83 · 15/02/2023 14:16

I would bin it.

If you want to ask the salary, you can call or email. You would be told its dependant one experience, and the general salary range we are looking at.

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So why not just post the salary range with the job ad, and save everyone time and effort? Plus ensure you don't miss suitably qualified candidates who don't apply because you can't be bothered to tell them what you will pay?

Augend23 · 16/02/2023 17:53

The problem I find is that job descriptions are often completely composed of buzz words, job titles seem to vary massively from sector to sector and so for me, the salary is one of the key differentiators that determines whether or not I want to apply for the job.

I can't be doing with messing around calling every possible job ad without a salary on, and I earn beyond the 90th centile for full time workers as it is, and I'm not yet 30, so there's a good chance most of them won't be prepared to pay what I currently earn.

Obviously those companies find it works for them but it doesn't make me think they're going to respect my time when I get there as they clearly don't have much regard for it before I have.

icanneverthinkofnc · 16/02/2023 18:45

If wages are to be non disclosed or 'competitive rate of pay', then fine, I'd ask for what I want.

It wastes both our time, though.

For my type of job, it will be NMW to NLW.
I want 50k plus. We know they aren't going to pay that, so it wastes everyone's time. Just put the wage on there.

blippyissilly · 16/02/2023 18:49

No salary stated = I don't apply

Ohreallyreally · 16/02/2023 20:55

Seasonofthewitch83 · 16/02/2023 17:27

Perhaps we are inadvertently taking advantage of working in an industry that is extremely attractive to people and we do not struggle with getting good applicants.

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@Seasonofthewitch83 There's no inadvertently about it. You absolutely are taking advantage of an industry with too many candidates.

Seasonofthewitch83 · 17/02/2023 10:27

Ohreallyreally · 16/02/2023 20:55

@Seasonofthewitch83 There's no inadvertently about it. You absolutely are taking advantage of an industry with too many candidates.

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Well that is just semantics isn't it...I have agreed that we very well could be, but there isn't intention behind it. No one has ever sat down and said 'People are desperate to work in this industry so we can recruit how we like.' but we absolutely do not struggle with good candidates approaching us for vacancies all the time.