Depression denial, trauma caused by parent

[Lostwifehelp]

My husband is going through depression (I think) except he doesn’t think it’s depression and thinks he’s fundamentally changed as a person after certain realisations about his childhood. As a result he’s unwilling to seek help (therapy or medication).

His trauma is related to an aspect of his religious upbringing. His mother has apologised for it but continues to be part off a religious cult. This is unacceptable to him because this shows to him that she hasn’t really understood and her apology is hollow. I think it’s impossible to change her religious views. He thinks once he has completely messed up his life she might realise how bad her religious cult is. Why he needs that I don’t understand. He’s obviously deeply hurt.

I love him and want to help him but I feel completely lost. He thinks only he knows how to deal with this and nobody else can understand what he’s going through, so I’m being unreasonable by asking him to try to fix it through therapy or medication.

Ive been through similar so can relate although my parents aren't religious, they both have personality disorders (mother more extreme) so I get it.
You're not being unreasonable, you're trying to help him, but he has to want help. He might still be processing the hurt before he decides he needs to see a therapist. Therapy takes dedication and you have to put the work in, he might not be ready for that yet. I've had therapy twice when I was younger and about to start my 3rd round (I'm now 32) this time I have chosen someone who specialises in trauma related issues so I'd really recommend that for your husband when he feels ready. I really hope he decides to get help but it's his choice at the end of the day. I totally understand though.

@Kate8990 Thank you. Yes, now that I think about it you’re right he may still be processing his hurt. It has been almost a year now but maybe he needs longer. It’s hard when someone you love is depressed, you want them to be better quickly but maybe he needs more time before he can engage with therapy or medication.

Is he no contact with his Mother? For me petsonally I couldn't start to heal until I went no contact.

@Kate8990 He’s still in contact with her. I think it’s probably slightly different for example if you have an abusive parent who continues to be abusive? His mother doesn’t actively do anything that hurts him but I suppose he does find her continued participation in her religious cult triggering.

I don’t think he has depression. I agree he should seek help being the survivor of a cult. It is most likely he is suffering from cPTSD. He may also have DID as you have to dissociate from yourself to self-destruct.
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201502/ritual-abuse-cults-and-captivity

He needs a specialist psychotherapist that works with cult survivors. They do exist, and he’s definitely not alone!
Here is a charity based in London that helps people find therapy and support groups:
cultinformation.org.uk

Here is also another one based in York:
www.tothinkagain.co.uk

Yeah, maybe you're right. My Mother was relentless so I didn't have a choice in the end. I find that when you're still in contact with an abuser, you're in survival mode so when you go no contact any trauma starts to unravel. But as you say, if she's no longer causing him any issues maybe being in contact isn't a problem. I'd recommend him telling her how he feels if he hasn't already. Suggest he writes her a letter to get all his feelings out and then he can make the choice whether to give it to her.

@Onnabugeisha Interesting. Will suggest either a cult or childhood trauma specialist if he does agree to speak to someone.

@Kate8990 He’s spoken to her and written countless messages to her about how he feels over the last year or so. It’s all getting a bit repetitive now. Her response it say it was done with good intentions, she’s sorry for how he feels and to ask for forgiveness. He wants her to go further and say the childhood devotion scheme/cult is wrong, which she won’t do.

She's still effecting him then and would benefit from considering time apart at least. No contact all together is extreme but some space would help. It is really difficult but crucial to recovery IMO.

He wants her to go further and say the childhood devotion scheme/cult is wrong, which she won’t do.

She cant do it. Not won’t. That’s what brainwashing and psychological torture does to an adult. If she leaves the cult, she might one day be able to break free from the brainwashing and realise this for him. For his own sake, he needs to understand she is still in that bubble and so she isn’t going to be able to even comprehend that the cult has gone down a dark path much less understand the damage she did to him. It’s tough, but he needs therapy to be able to heal without an apology from her or anyone in the cult.

@Onnabugeisha Yes I’ve tried to explain that but he just points to examples of people who have left the cult and says that if they can do it so can she. I also don’t feel like it’s for him to try to change her beliefs. She is happy in this religious community/cult. I agree that he will need to find a way to heal without the apology that he wants

Would he consider going NC with her?

I have had therapy and had to realise that I will never get what I want from my parent because they are incapable of giving me what I need. Its not that they wont, they cant and not matter how much I reason or try to explain they simply dont see it. People have to see it for themselves, she needs to want to leave the cult for her.

No he won’t go NC with her. To be honest given all the crap the cult teaches about valuing the cult above all else and socially isolating people who leave it, it has somewhat surprised him that his parents have been accepting of his decision to leave it.

Yeah, I was sure that you had pointed this out to him already, problem is you love him so he’s going to think you’re trying to salve his feelings. He’d be better off hearing that from a therapist. You’re really amazing to be trying to get him help btw. It can’t be easy for you.

She didn't put him first as a child. He wants her to put him first now. She can't or won't so he's in for a lot more disappointment and heartache. I understand that yearning, but even if she did it wouldn't fix the past trauma. That's what he needs to understand and accept. Then he'll be ready for external help ,and it sounds like he desperately needs it.

@Onnabugeisha Thank you ❤️ It is tough to see someone you love suffering and to not be able to help them. I can’t really talk to anyone in real life as I don’t know if he would appreciate me sharing his issues so I really appreciate strangers offering advice on here.

@JustAnotherManicNameChange Yes you’re right. For a while I tried to be more understanding of her circumstances. She was indoctrinated and that’s why she didn’t put her child first and she didn’t realise the long term consequences of her actions etc. But I have reached out to her to tell her how much her child is suffering and how he desperately needs a few words from her, but she won’t do it. I know what I would do if I knew my child was hurting so much. But maybe I’m being unfair because I don’t have any deep seated religious beliefs that I value more than my children. Anyway you are right, that he needs to understand the solution won’t come from her but I can’t seem to convince him off that at the moment:

It might seem obvious to you (and us) that he needs therapy but of course you can't force him. He's not ready. However, would he read some books, do you think? I don't know which books would be best for this kind of situation - it's very specific and complex - but there must be books out there. Perhaps if you post on the Stately Homes thread, the knowledgable people on there might be able to point you in the right direction.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4660201-november-2022-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

I do sympathise with the difficult position you're in. You can't fix it for him, you can only support and encourage him, but his state of mind also has a negative impact on you, and it must be frustrating that he is not willing (or not ready) to seek the help that you feel he needs.

Do you have children?

The thing is... it takes time. And i know a year seems like a long time for you but he's probably still in the throes of it. Think of it as grief and all the stages that come with it. Only with the added heartache that he thinks he could have his mum back if she did what he wants her to. So he loses her all over again and again and again. Because he still has either misguided hope or a need for her.

What happened last year?

@AnotherEmma Thanks. I’ve tried to send him a few articles today about grieving about childhood trauma. Will see with him over the next few days if he has read them.
We do have very young children and that’s about the only thing that seems to give him a little happiness these days. Otherwise he describes feeling nothing about anything.

@JustAnotherManicNameChange Yes I think you’re right. It’s actually not that long in terms of the issue he is dealing with. This stuff always bothered him but last summer he decided to get therapy and it made it much worse. I think he did it for about 6-8 weeks and then got very busy with work. Perhaps if he had persisted things would have eventually got better.

Sorry to hear that therapy made him feel much worse - I'm not surprised though as with experiences as traumatic as his, I'm sure it's normal for it to get worse before it gets better It's so difficult when you have young children and I think parenthood can often bring up painful issues from your own childhood. One book that's often recommended is "the book you wish you parents had read", I wonder if he would be open to reading that.

I wonder if medication would give him enough of a boost to be able to cope with therapy, or just feel more able to cope in general while he moves towards feeling ready to try therapy again.

Anyway, this is for him to work out not you, but I'm a "fixer" too so I understand

@AnotherEmma Yes it was actually having children that brought this all up. The film Boy Erased had come out shortly before our first child was born and it triggered something in my husband, probably because it’s about how religious parents overlook their child’s well-being in order to put their child through a religious program (which is what happened with my husband).

I hadn’t thought that medication might help him get through the therapy. That actually sounds like a good idea. The challenge is that he is really against taking anything and I can understand why. I have been through two brief spells of depression in my life and I refused when he asked me to take something but what I went through was much more related to circumstances and when those changed I got better whereas his issues are much more deep seated and not going to go away on their own. You’re right, I’m very much a fixer ❤️

At the moment he is talking to me about what he feels and it’s hard to get the balance right between validating his feelings about his mother but also trying to get him to see that he can’t change the fact that her religious beliefs will always come first.

I get on quite well with her and we both don’t think she’s a ‘bad’ person, but she has been raised to believe that it is noble to sacrifice your child for your religion and that has been coupled with having certain narcissistic traits (having grandiose notions about herself). People do overcome religious brainwashing but it has to come from within them and manipulating her into it is wrong.

I do think she has also shown some terrible parenting. Her other son told her as a child that her nephew had tried touching him sexually and her only response was to reprimand him and not remove him from her sons room (where he stayed for a few years and continued to abuse him).

I don’t really know how to feel about her anymore. When we are talking about stuff I go between thinking I am being too forgiving off her to thinking I am being too harsh towards her.

@Lostwifehelp I am in the same position with my wife and I’m sorry to say it is a very long road. She left the religion (and her parents house) at 18- she had stopped believing before that but couldn’t afford to leave before then. It is now 20 years later and she still struggles… not every day or even month but every time it is somehow brought back to her (yesterday was because her mum wrote to our son).

She has trauma responses to hymns/churches/priests/ we had to remove our son from church visits at school etc.

She doesn’t contact them anymore and has had one long and one short stint at therapy- your husband has to one way or another accept that his mothers religion is more important than him. It’s wrong, but it is true. It is the same for children abused in any way- the abuse is wrong and the parents are not good people.

I think it's possible to acknowledge that someone's actions were/are unacceptable while also acknowledging that they are just human, with imperfections, and if not forgiving them for their actions, understanding that they are perhaps not capable of acknowledging they were/are wrong. It's a lot to come to terms with, especially if it's your parent(s).

I really recommend the books "Toxic In-Laws" for you and "Toxic Parents" for your DH (although you could read it too), both by Susan Forward.

@AnotherEmma Thanks! I will check those books out. I think it will be a long road convincing my husband that she’s not capable of accepting that she’s wrong. I think he sees her cognitive dissonance around other aspects of her religious views play out and sees potential for growth eg she has not given her daughter less in her will even though that is what her religion requires.

@Theshadowsthecurtainsmake Thanks for sharing your experience. Has the therapy helped her? I am wondering now if some space from his parents could help even though they have been accepting of his decision. I come from the same religious background as my husband so I can somewhat relate, but my parents were much more moderate in their beliefs and I wasn’t told from childhood that my parents had me in order to serve the community and that was my purpose in life, so losing faith and leaving the community was much less traumatic for me.

With you saying she has gradiose notions about herself and she neglected to stop sexual abuse and protect her other son. I'd be going NC if I was your husband and begin to heal. She's toxic and you're aren't being too harsh. She's basically a weak bystander and didn't protect her children.
Kind of reminds me of my dad except it wasn't sexual abuse, was physical abuse from my mother and my dad did NOTHING to stop it. He also has grandiose tendancies and loves to put other down mixed in with a bit of flattery to keep you around. I'm in the process of going low contact and I've stopped feeling guilty about not wanting to see him. I haven't seen or spoke to my mother in 2+ years. The healing begins when you cut off emotionally.