Page 13 | Local Persons restriction seem a bit racist? Or am I overthinking?

dartmoorgirl12 · 2023-02-14T08:36:19+00:00

We're house hunting on Dartmoor (clue's in the name!) at the moment, and we've seen a house with a Local Persons restriction on it. You have to live or work in the local or neighbouring parish for the previous five years. We actually qualify, but it got me thinking... Isn't it a bit weird that the "protected" group here are extremely likely to be white/broadly Christian. It just seems really exclusive for 2023. I do understand the idea that local communities should be protected, and that there is absolutely toxic housing pressure in Dartmoor at the moment. But ironically I live down here now because we got royally outpriced in the bit of London I grew up in. And there def doesn't seem to be any move to have Local Persons protections on various parts of London, which have been rapidly gentrified in recent times. I just thought it was interesting. Why is it that this group of white people get protected in this way?

HoboHotel · 15/02/2023 12:12

thehorsehasnowbolted · 15/02/2023 12:08

Do you think they are all making it up and 'weaponising' racism too?

The 200+ pupils?

The Home Office?

The theatre makers?

The individuals who've shared their experiences?

The Home Office, fair enough, but it would have to be compared with crimes elsewhere, not only rurally. You also have the issue of some groups being more inclined to report than others.

The 200+ pupils? I would be inclined to consider it, but there are agitators and people with agendas everywhere, even in schools

An individual writing a book or a musician? I'm naturally quite sceptical about these accounts in general, so I would need to see proof, etc

Cross posted.

Thank you for confirming that you think anyone reporting racism is lying and has an ulterior motive.

'Agitators'? Wow. You're talking about over 200 school pupils sharing their first hand experiences. What a truly disgusting thing to call them.

Redebs · 15/02/2023 12:15

HoboHotel · 15/02/2023 11:42

'Used as a weapon every time'

Nothing racist in Norfolk, no.

The words of musician Myleene Klass about the racism she received while growing up in Norfolk were a tough read for anyone who deeply cares for this county, its people and its reputation.
In a brutally honest post last week, she listed a string of abusive slurs she heard as a child and told how she even receives prejudice, not just in Norfolk but elsewhere, to this day.
www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/22370414.opinion-can-bit-end-racism-racial-discrimination/

A letter accusing an elite private school in Norfolk of racist abuse has been signed by more than two hundred pupils.
The letter, sent to the chair of governors of Norwich School, was written by three former pupils and included a dossier of examples of racism compiled by students.
The pupils say that racist abuse at the fee-paying school is often dismissed as a 'joke' with victims being labelled 'overly sensitive'.
www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-06-18/top-private-school-in-norfolk-accused-by-more-than-200-pupils-of-racism

A man who suffered racist abuse as a child has written a one-man show about his experiences of growing up as a mixed-race person in rural England.
Ashton Owen, 25, will perform his show, titled Outskirts, at Sheringham Little Theatre in north Norfolk.
It will premiere virtually on 22 March and Mr Owen will play more than a dozen characters from his childhood.
He said: "I hope the play gets people to think about what they say and do and how it impacts on people of colour."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-56403411

The number of racially and religiously motivated crimes has risen by 44pc in Norfolk over the past five years, figures show.
Home Office data has revealed there were 1,362 hate crime offences recorded in the county in the year ending March 2021.
www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/20639826.shocking-rise-racist-religiously-motivated-attacks-abuse/

nnfestival.org.uk/festival-bridge/events/rewriting-rural-racism/

Do you think they are all making it up and 'weaponising' racism too?

The 200+ pupils?

The Home Office?

The theatre makers?

The individuals who've shared their experiences?

All making it up because they want to buy up all your lovely homes?

Show quote history

Very interesting.
Not just me then🤔

CatJumperTwat · 15/02/2023 12:21

HoboHotel We can all see the horse's agenda. Don't waste your breath.

unsync · 15/02/2023 12:22

We have that here in Essex for shared ownership properties. It's so that the youngsters can stay where they grew up.

WiIson · 15/02/2023 12:31

unsync · 15/02/2023 12:22

We have that here in Essex for shared ownership properties. It's so that the youngsters can stay where they grew up.

That sounds more than reasonable. It's totally rubbish when young people are priced out of their communities.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 15/02/2023 12:36

@HoboHotel you have decided to harrass me on another thread and on this one too. I will not engage with you any further

Everanewbie · 15/02/2023 12:50

Mylene Klass' school days aren't really relevant. I am more than capable of holding two thoughts in my head at the same time. Racism is disgusting and we must ensure that rural communities are not left to die due to tourism stripping out the prosperity. We can be concerned about both without conflating them.

We're talking about places that have previously thrived being turned into seasonal ghost towns where properties are only used for 3-4 months of the year by people that do not build their lives there.

lieselotte · 15/02/2023 12:51

Bamboozle123 · 14/02/2023 17:49

Yeah this is spot on!

It more than likely does indirectly discriminate

We accepted this several pages ago. But indirect discrimination can be acceptable if there is a reasonable justification for it, and it's not disproportionate.

lieselotte · 15/02/2023 12:54

OP: the Equality Act does apply but it also doesn't forbid all forms of discrimination. I and others have said this several times on the thread but as ever been ignored by those who think they know better.

Indirect discrimination can sometimes be lawful. The Equality Act says it’s not indirect discrimination if the person applying the practice, policy or rule, can show there’s a good enough reason for it. They would need to be able to prove this in court, if necessary. This is known in legal terms as objective justification.

WiIson · 15/02/2023 12:55

We accepted this several pages ago. But indirect discrimination can be acceptable if there is a reasonable justification for it, and it's not disproportionate.

Yes.

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 15/02/2023 13:29

Fizzadora · 14/02/2023 08:44

It's to try and protect the area from people like you who come down from London with all your money and inflate the process so that locals can't afford to live there.
They should have introduced it years ago.

Oh wow so much hatred.
What are people priced out of London supposed to do then?

WiIson · 15/02/2023 14:07

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 15/02/2023 13:29

Oh wow so much hatred.
What are people priced out of London supposed to do then?

Show quote history

Affordable housing for young local Londoners in London would be the answer.

Those who sell high in London and take up housing in other communities, with profit in their pockets whilst forcing young people out of their communities are the problem. A proportion of housing needs to be local only.

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/02/2023 14:12

A proportion of housing needs to be local only.

Or of some local benefit, like staff for the medical centre or teachers, people who can contribute to the continuation of normal life.

WiIson · 15/02/2023 14:18

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/02/2023 14:12

A proportion of housing needs to be local only.

Or of some local benefit, like staff for the medical centre or teachers, people who can contribute to the continuation of normal life.

Yes if it benefits the community with key jobs that can't be filled locally.

Applesandcarrots · 15/02/2023 14:19

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/02/2023 14:12

A proportion of housing needs to be local only.

Or of some local benefit, like staff for the medical centre or teachers, people who can contribute to the continuation of normal life.

That seems to be the case in the scheme I linked. Local and/or working local and/or keyworker. I think that's pretty reasonable when applied to some affordable properties.

TonTonMacoute · 15/02/2023 14:29

No I don't think it's fair to say its a racist policy. Devon's population is around 98% white British, but any family from an ethnic background would be eligible if they had lived here long enough

There probably should be a similar policy for Londoners.

Also London will never be at risk of totally losing all of its thriving local communities in the way that Dartmoor is.

Original poster

dartmoorgirl12 · 15/02/2023 14:40

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/02/2023 14:12

A proportion of housing needs to be local only.

Or of some local benefit, like staff for the medical centre or teachers, people who can contribute to the continuation of normal life.

I'd totally understand if it was restricted to keyworkers (although I guess also quite hard to manage - because you might buy as a nurse and then go off and do something else. But I guess provided you were a keyworker when you bought, that should be enough.)

OP posts:

Original poster

dartmoorgirl12 · 15/02/2023 14:42

TonTonMacoute · 15/02/2023 14:29

No I don't think it's fair to say its a racist policy. Devon's population is around 98% white British, but any family from an ethnic background would be eligible if they had lived here long enough

There probably should be a similar policy for Londoners.

Also London will never be at risk of totally losing all of its thriving local communities in the way that Dartmoor is.

Yes, but my point is that having houses for sale at a 20% discount to a population that is 98% White British seems statistically unfair when compared to the wider population, and that could constitute indirect discrimination. Someone said that this had been tested in court, but I can't see anywhere when this issue came up.

OP posts:

Bubblebubblebah · 15/02/2023 14:49

So it is the scheme with few houses on developments earmarked as affordable for locals not that no one else can buy anything in the area!

Yeah that sounds just like shit stirring thread now, especially since you never answered how many houses it is and some people operated on it being a whole area.

WiIson · 15/02/2023 14:50

dartmoorgirl12 · 15/02/2023 14:40

I'd totally understand if it was restricted to keyworkers (although I guess also quite hard to manage - because you might buy as a nurse and then go off and do something else. But I guess provided you were a keyworker when you bought, that should be enough.)

Show quote history

Why shouldn't some of it also be restricted to the local population. The young adults who have lived all of their lives there and are now forced out, forcing the next group out and so on, until they end up on the streets or on the sea. It's not reasonable to smash up local communities, separate families and drive young people out. Housing issues need to be addressed in each area for all young people so they can all remain in their local communities in housing that is affordable. If people were as green friendly as they pretend to be then they would welcome and support families and communities to stay together.

TonTonMacoute · 15/02/2023 14:54

dartmoorgirl12 · 15/02/2023 14:42

Yes, but my point is that having houses for sale at a 20% discount to a population that is 98% White British seems statistically unfair when compared to the wider population, and that could constitute indirect discrimination. Someone said that this had been tested in court, but I can't see anywhere when this issue came up.

Show quote history

You are right, you are overthinking this.

To whom is it unfair? The alternative is that there is no restriction and the locals would never be able to compete. How is that fair?

Bamboozle123 · 15/02/2023 17:26

lieselotte · 15/02/2023 12:51

We accepted this several pages ago. But indirect discrimination can be acceptable if there is a reasonable justification for it, and it's not disproportionate.

Show quote history

I'm aware of that.
Would be interesting if this was tested on court

thehorsehasnowbolted · 15/02/2023 17:52

Bamboozle123 · 15/02/2023 17:26

I'm aware of that.
Would be interesting if this was tested on court

Show quote history

Often unscrpulous human right lawyers will convince some random punter that this is unlawful discrimination and should be 'tested in court'. Case is lost but said lawyer still gets their fee one way or another (usually the unsuspecting client being taken for a mug ends up paying)

Bubblebubblebah · 15/02/2023 18:00

So.... Would we like it challenged just in predominantly white areas or everywhere?...

JudgeJ · 15/02/2023 18:04

HoboHotel · 15/02/2023 11:42

'Used as a weapon every time'

Nothing racist in Norfolk, no.

The words of musician Myleene Klass about the racism she received while growing up in Norfolk were a tough read for anyone who deeply cares for this county, its people and its reputation.
In a brutally honest post last week, she listed a string of abusive slurs she heard as a child and told how she even receives prejudice, not just in Norfolk but elsewhere, to this day.
www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/22370414.opinion-can-bit-end-racism-racial-discrimination/

A letter accusing an elite private school in Norfolk of racist abuse has been signed by more than two hundred pupils.
The letter, sent to the chair of governors of Norwich School, was written by three former pupils and included a dossier of examples of racism compiled by students.
The pupils say that racist abuse at the fee-paying school is often dismissed as a 'joke' with victims being labelled 'overly sensitive'.
www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-06-18/top-private-school-in-norfolk-accused-by-more-than-200-pupils-of-racism

A man who suffered racist abuse as a child has written a one-man show about his experiences of growing up as a mixed-race person in rural England.
Ashton Owen, 25, will perform his show, titled Outskirts, at Sheringham Little Theatre in north Norfolk.
It will premiere virtually on 22 March and Mr Owen will play more than a dozen characters from his childhood.
He said: "I hope the play gets people to think about what they say and do and how it impacts on people of colour."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-56403411

The number of racially and religiously motivated crimes has risen by 44pc in Norfolk over the past five years, figures show.
Home Office data has revealed there were 1,362 hate crime offences recorded in the county in the year ending March 2021.
www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/20639826.shocking-rise-racist-religiously-motivated-attacks-abuse/

nnfestival.org.uk/festival-bridge/events/rewriting-rural-racism/

Do you think they are all making it up and 'weaponising' racism too?

The 200+ pupils?

The Home Office?

The theatre makers?

The individuals who've shared their experiences?

All making it up because they want to buy up all your lovely homes?

Show quote history

Wow, you've a lot of time on your hands ! I was making general comments about how many areas of the UK restrict sales to those working in the area, ie contributing, in too many places nurses, teachers etc can't afford to live. I don't actually live in North Norfolk, we're in the poorer end but, just as I know what goes on in other countries because I'm reasonably literate, I know what's happening there as well as Cornwall, Lake DIsrict, Devon etc etc..