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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teaching

173 replies

Sallydimebar · 13/02/2023 23:32

Am I being unreasonable to think teaching is on its knees . It’s a job soon enough no-one will want .
Was having a conversation with SIl , her best friend has decided to quit this year she’s had enough . Teachers are leaving Ds secondary school in doves it seems .
There seems to be a endless stream of supply teachers and just heard his favourite English teacher is leaving a Easter .

Seen today some parents protesting outside a school as it was stopping pupils using toilets during lesson time , it’s a story I see time & time again esp about toilet use and i just have to ask do parents know that kids meet up in toilets to vape, Snapchat ect so unfortunately can’t have a endless pass on toilet use as classes would be half empty and seniors would just be going round all day getting them back to lessons .

The point I’m making is being a teacher in today’s society is a really tough job and parents just don’t give enough support in getting behind Childs school . I would love those 50 parents there today to maybe go and spend a day in the school and see why toilet passes are needed and how hard it is at best of times to engage a class of 30 12-14 yr olds or 15/16 yr olds .

Listening to Sil friend who’s a really good teacher feel so deflated and unhappy is sad .
Also the teacher who committed suicide this week the day before she was due in court for catching pupils hair while confiscating phone, leaving a husband and 2 daughters devastated as well as many colleges.

OP posts:
RockStarship · 13/02/2023 23:43

I left teaching 5 years ago, and have dipped my toes back into briefly in the past month, but have realised that it's not what I want to do anymore. I miss working with the kids, but it's just not worth the stress, the anxiety, the workload, the pay. I'm not alone in this- I have a large number of old teacher training friends as well as ex colleagues who have either left teaching, or are planning to leave asap. A number of teachers at my dcs schools have recently left, and both schools are struggling to recruit. It's a mess.

Mudandpuddle · 13/02/2023 23:49

I think when the school has got to the point of having worse than prison like conditions to engage the pupils you're right the teachers should quit and the school should close. It's a shocking harmful environment for everyone. Obviously the system isn't working.

MrsPuddle · 13/02/2023 23:52

The number of teachers with experience leaving the profession is too large, and there aren’t enough youngsters coming in. I am a head of science and my team are all over the age of 35. That’s not right, we need to train new staff but no one applying.

Having said that I am going too this year, only aged 54 but had enough. Looking for something less stressful, where I can have a day off when I want and and WFH! That would be so cool!

and before anyone says it, I will not miss the long holidays because I won’t need them so badly. Ex teachers say they are less exhausted so don’t notice the loss of holidays.

peanuttery · 13/02/2023 23:57

RockStarship · 13/02/2023 23:43

I left teaching 5 years ago, and have dipped my toes back into briefly in the past month, but have realised that it's not what I want to do anymore. I miss working with the kids, but it's just not worth the stress, the anxiety, the workload, the pay. I'm not alone in this- I have a large number of old teacher training friends as well as ex colleagues who have either left teaching, or are planning to leave asap. A number of teachers at my dcs schools have recently left, and both schools are struggling to recruit. It's a mess.

I am in this boat. I miss the teaching every day, but would never go back.

For me it was the school joining a huge all singing and dancing academy. It gained a preppy, inexperienced head with a huge ego, a shit ton of extra paperwork, but lost all soul and most of our support staff.

All but 1 teacher handed their notice in that year. Myself included.

Never again!

Littlebluedinosaur · 13/02/2023 23:57

The pay got worse. The pension got worse.

The behaviour got worse. The numbers of children with special needs grew and grew while the number of TAs to support decreased.

The vast majority of parents I dealt with were great. The minority were extremely wearing and took up an inordinate amount of my time.

So I left to do what @MrsPuddle describes.

EveSix · 14/02/2023 00:10

Just over a quarter of teachers at my school are currently long term supply. (The same is true of the TAs.) This means subject leadership and a range of responsibilities is shared between a relatively small pool of colleagues, which is exhausting.
The colleagues who have left are having a great time; pursuing new opportunities in employment and further training, and seem to have so much time to socialise, enjoy hobbies and spend time with their families. Not one of them has breathed a word about missing the school holidays, because they have their evenings and weekends all year round.

Faultymain5 · 14/02/2023 04:14

I’m sorry teachers are leaving. I’m sorry the job is so hard it puts people off. I’m sorry the job is so hard and the system so rigid that a teacher actually accepts that refusing children access to toilets is acceptable. That the way to stop vaping in toilets is to allow humiliation of children. Access to toilets is something I’ll be tackling the school about next week. so that is a sore subject for me.

Im sorry budgets are so restricted that actual classroom support is non-existent. Though in my day there were no TAs in classrooms and up to 34 children in classes. I’m sorry the job is more difficult now and losses of good teachers has become a termly occurrence. I have no thoughts on how to stop it.

I know a new teacher who loves her job. But she teaches in a private school (where behaviour is no better) so it has its benefits.

OxanaVorontsova · 14/02/2023 04:32

I’m looking at early retirement in a couple of years as I’m just exhausted by it. I’m one of about 10 women of a similar age in leadership positions, so once we’ve gone it will make a significant difference to the school.

Aussiegirl123456 · 14/02/2023 04:35

Mudandpuddle · 13/02/2023 23:49

I think when the school has got to the point of having worse than prison like conditions to engage the pupils you're right the teachers should quit and the school should close. It's a shocking harmful environment for everyone. Obviously the system isn't working.

I agree with this.
I teach abroad, and here it wouldn’t even be considered to not allow a child to go to the toilet during lesson time, or to get some water.
We have a system in place (secondary school) where we log each time a student leaves the class and the reason why. Admin (principals and deputy’s and head of years) walk around the school randomly and periodically. If they see a student, they’re able to check why they’re out of class and how long for.
It sounds like extra work but honestly is a two second job to put in the system. It’s working so well so far.

I have worked in schools that have a lanyard / out of class pass system too.

I cannot believe the immense pressure poor UK teachers are under and I don’t blame them for leaving the profession in large numbers.

It isn’t perfect where I am but we are under far less pressure and we have so much support from our admins. A school is only as good as its administration here. But in England it feels that the pressure is coming from all angles and you can’t please everyone. I have so many British colleagues who’ve moved over this year and they cannot believe they can actually teach. And teach content with freedom and imagination with differentiation that they KNOW will benefit their students.

ThrallsWife · 14/02/2023 05:54

Toileting is a sore point for many people, and it really depends on the aspirations of the kids in your school whether you can be lax with it or whether you have to forbid it.

Truancy is rife in my school, so we had to forbid toileting unless there is a medical reason. Our kids use toilets to hide from lessons, be on their phones, vape and make tik tok videos. We used to lof toileting, had people escort kids to the toilets - none of it made a difference, so now kids are just not allowed to go.

On the other hand, my Trust don't seem to accept that we simply don't have enough toilets to allow everyone to go at break or lunch. Or that some kids will flood during lessons and need to change their pads. There is no flexibility.

I'd like to get back to a point where it's teacher discretion, but even there it can be a minefield.

As for the job in general, I still love it. Teenagers are, on the whole, an amusing bunch and the odd moment when you get through to them feels amazing. Yes, behaviour can be a challenge, but again, it really depends on how it is handled from a senior leader point of view. The paperwork sucks, but I have managed to get myself into a relatively niche area of working where I end up with more of the interesting paperwork and less of the shifting paper for the sake of it.

I think what gets a lot of new colleagues now is the lack of training. Most routes into teaching are now 1 year of training only, in some cases a mere 6 weeks, and often focused on getting into management rather than classroom teaching, and that just isn't enough to make a well-rounded teacher. I went and trained for 4 years, with 2-3 school-based placements per year. Our course focused on pedagogy - something so many PGCE routes and school direct routes don't actually teach before you set foot into the classroom. Other countries, in which teaching is valued, insist on many years' worth of training before someone is a teacher. It makes a difference in maturity levels and in someone's approach to children of all ages.

Inexperience means poor behaviour in the classroom, as does a constant stream of new teachers coming in and then leaving within a few months. Like anything, relationships with the kids matter - and I don't mean friendships.

I have a colleague who is mates with the kids and they behave incredibly well for him in lessons, but he hates his job because his room is now a social hub before school, at break and lunch, and after school, as well as during lessons where many kids seek him out. He never has time to do his actual work and ends up doing it all at night, but it's of his own making.

I have a different relationship with the kids. They respect me, because I have been here a while, know my stuff and won't take any shit (from them or from management's unreasonable side - I have been known to pull people up on their bullshit). But I also insist on breaks, lunches and time to prepare my lessons or do my paperwork at work. Therefore, I get more done and am less stressed and less prone to hating my job. And because I'm good at what I do (and take the approach that accountability goes both ways), managers, on the whole, leave me alone.

TL;DR, a few things need to change:
-more reason, from parents and from management
-longer, better quality teacher training focused on pedagogy and child psychology
-an approach to retention within schools (crap managers drive good teachers to the next school)
-on that note, better management training for aspiring leaders
-some bloody self-respect and self-care from new and existing teachers

Whyarewehardofthinking · 14/02/2023 06:08

The best approach is that teachers use their judgement to let them go to the toilet. We can't just let them go when they want or you would lose half of the class, but if you know the class you can usually tell one who wants the toilet and those that want to skive.

Vaping is a huge problem in our school at the moment, and that is where they go to do it. And whilst we confiscate the vapes we then have to deal with the parents who bought them happily for their child.

On Friday I was called a retarded fuck by a parent when returning the vape, si ply because I said we treat it like smoking and that they can't do it in the building, and, you know, a 13 year old shouldn't do it.

Aussiegirl123456 · 14/02/2023 06:45

Whyarewehardofthinking · 14/02/2023 06:08

The best approach is that teachers use their judgement to let them go to the toilet. We can't just let them go when they want or you would lose half of the class, but if you know the class you can usually tell one who wants the toilet and those that want to skive.

Vaping is a huge problem in our school at the moment, and that is where they go to do it. And whilst we confiscate the vapes we then have to deal with the parents who bought them happily for their child.

On Friday I was called a retarded fuck by a parent when returning the vape, si ply because I said we treat it like smoking and that they can't do it in the building, and, you know, a 13 year old shouldn't do it.

I feel parents are the biggest issue most of the time. 😔

Dinosaurpoopy · 14/02/2023 06:52

I moved my maternity leave forward, returned for 6 weeks between mat leaves and I'm done. I'm just another statistic I would have done 5 years and I'm out. Behaviour, policies and parents are the reason for me

Forfrigz · 14/02/2023 07:09

Teaching is a joke profession in this country. Teachers have so much responsibility and such a heavy workload, nit to mention play an enormous role in society, yet they are treated like dirt by the general public as well as the government. I would never train as I know I don't respond favourably to being treated like shit.
This government is happy to see agencies make shit loads of money by charging schools twice as much as supply teachers get paid. It'll just become another business foe the government to prop up, much like the trains have become. Healthcare is quickly following.
All the sheep who bleat about taxes will continue to for them though. I hope if you're one you do a good 'baa' as you drop your lambs off this morning. What a lovely future they have ahead!

savoycabbage · 14/02/2023 07:19

I'm a primary supply teacher and things are as bad as they can get at the moment. I can't tell you the number of times I have gone into a school to cover a class where the teacher has resigned and left and they can't find a replacement.

TAs are crying from the pressure of the amount of work they have to do because schools can't afford enough people to do the work that needs to be done. Then they leave or they are off with sickness because of the stress.

Then at home time parents are asking for lost unarmed jumpers when you feel as if you have just been through a war. Or asking why their child hasn't read that week. There is nobody to hear them read.

Parents have absolutely no idea what is happening in schools or how bad it is.

MrsMurphyIWish · 14/02/2023 07:22

I’m an experienced teacher of 23 years and I will be out at 50 (5 years to go!) and will move in not any WFH role, not fussy.

I think in the future, teaching will just be a constant cycle of graduates who will do it for a few years and the move on. I worry about education in the future. My children will be fine - by that time their compulsory ed will be finished but I look at the student I teach and often wonder what eduction will be like for their children.

Yesterday the RE dept in my school had an ITT teacher begin. At the end of the day they said they were unsure they would return!

SnoozyVanWinkle · 14/02/2023 07:28

I feel parents are the biggest issue most of the time. 😔

I feel as if I must spend an hour a day on minor first aid related jobs. I don't mean bumped heads or bad falls.

Children with scapes or a bruise because they walked into a table.
So you have to question them like the gestapo about it, fill in an accident form and send a message home. All whilst managing and supposedly teaching 29 other children.
Then you have to ask them later if they are OK.
Then remember to give our the forms at home time at the point where there is the least chance of them leaving it in the classroom.
Then phone anyone who left their form behind.

And if you miss out one of those steps, someone will complain that you didn't ask Alison what was wrong or that you didn't tell them they had walked into a table.

misskatamari · 14/02/2023 07:28

YANBU. I taught for ten years (secondary) and left after having kids as it was just too much. I couldn't cope any longer with it. Vowed never ever to return.

I have actually started again at post 16 level, and its actually lovely and i'm so happy doing it - because teaching, when you get to teach is a wonderful job. I wouldn't step foot back in a high school again tho, no matter how much i was paid. Absolute hell and so destructive for your mental health, with no way to have any kind of work life balance.

Singleandproud · 14/02/2023 07:30

I left at Christmas, my new job doesn't even feel like I'm at work because it's hybrid and my WFH days just feel like a normal Sunday to me.

I work flexitime, I've been able to get DD to medical appointments that previously I'd try to push to half term if not super urgent (by which time whatever the problem was would have gone away) as I could never ring the surgery at 8am. I can drop DD off at school, do the shopping in the morning, get my housework done. I do my 7 hours and then I'm done, laptop closed for the next day, any extra I work just gets added to flexi leave I can take later.

This is the first year that I've not had the school holidays and it's fine because I don't need them, normally I'd be exhausted by this time of year and the holidays would just come at the right time.

savoycabbage · 14/02/2023 07:31

I think in the future, teaching will just be a constant cycle of graduates who will do it for a few years and the move on. I worry about education in the future.

I agree, I'm so grateful my youngest is sixteen and she's going to sixth form college just so she doesn't have to be in a school any more.

CalloohCallayFrabjousDay · 14/02/2023 07:32

I did a degree 7/8 years ago, and planned on doing a scitt or school direct after to become an English teacher. Had so many interviews and couldn't get a place on a course for love nor money! All said not enough school experience... despite working and volunteering in schools at different times. I even had a couple of interviewers tell me that I wouldn't be able to do it as I was a parent. They were all so negative about the job and it seemed they were trying to put applicants off.

LibbyL92 · 14/02/2023 07:33

The parents are the biggest issue aside from budgets.

extremely demanding. And unsupportive.

as someone mentioned above asking where their kids lost jumper is?
I don’t know. There’s 500 children at this school I’m sorry I don’t keep tabs on your child’s jumper which probably doesn’t have a name inside.

Chickenly · 14/02/2023 07:37

The toilet thing annoys me. The reality is that the school has a “no toilet during lessons” policy in order to back up a teacher who says no but what actually happens is that a teacher uses their discretion. If a child actually needs the toilet, they’re allowed to go. People on here seem not to realise that pupils ask to go to the toilet in every single lesson of the day and take 20 minutes to go. They are not using the toilet, they’re looking for permission to truant 99% of the time.

At the school I worked in, there were toilets a few feet away from my classroom - pupils refused to use them when they said they needed the toilet. I had pupils walk out because they “need the toilet” and “it’s a human right” after refusing to use those toilets. Why did they refuse? Because I’d be able to see their mates joining them and they wouldn’t be able to waste lesson time slowly dawdling there and back. They were perfectly happy to use those toilets when they were coming from other lessons…and they’d come out smelling like strawberries…

DH’s school implemented a new procedure recently. Students can go to the toilet during lessons but the time they use is made up at the end of the day/lunch/break. They then implemented that a member of staff would sit outside the toilets and only allow one pupil in at a time and check after them for vaping fumes. This reduced the number of students needing the toilet to almost zero. It’s funny how none of the students who were desperately going to wet themselves need to pee at all anymore. 99% of schools do not have the staff available for this to be possible.

No teacher or school has an issue with children needing to go to the toilet. They have an issue with students pretending to need to toilet in order to fuck around - blindly supported by parents who refuse to accept that their child isn’t the little angel they insist they are. Above anything else, it’s a safeguarding issue. If there’s a fire and five pupils are hiding in a toilet cubicle during a lesson then they’re at risk! Students meet up in the toilets to have sex - bet many of the bitching parents wouldn’t complain so much if the “human right” being prevented was actually stopping their 13yo meeting up for unprotected sex when they should’ve been in geography. We’ve had naked pictures taken by students of themselves in school toilets during lessons… Pupils self-harm in toilets during lessons… Pupils start fires in toilets during lessons…

mamnotmum · 14/02/2023 07:39

The system is so broken it's frightening.

A lot of kids have no respect for authority and nor do their parents. In England we don't seem to value education as a privilege.

The toilet issue is one that bothers me - DD is a good student but does need to use the toilet in lessons at times to manage heavy periods.

I feel we put too much emphasis on teachers getting good grades out of the kids and not the kids getting good grades themselves with the support of teachers.

If kids decide to skive, spend lessons in toilets etc then it's them missing out on learning. Detentions don't work because parents don't support them and behaviour seems so terrible and it's so hard to suspend and expel children. But really the trouble makers need removing to stop the disruption to other pupils and to reduce the workload and stress on teachers.

SnoozyVanWinkle · 14/02/2023 07:44

I agree @Chickenly.

And also, you have to show that the child who goes out for twenty minutes a lesson is progressing.

You can't just say in a progress meeting 'they haven't learnt a fucking thing because they are always at the toilet' and your HOD just says

'oh that's fine then. Thanks for explaining I'll put her down for no GCSEs whatsoever, no problem at all. Let's move on to Jane'