Teaching

[Sallydimebar]

Am I being unreasonable to think teaching is on its knees . It’s a job soon enough no-one will want .
Was having a conversation with SIl , her best friend has decided to quit this year she’s had enough . Teachers are leaving Ds secondary school in doves it seems .
There seems to be a endless stream of supply teachers and just heard his favourite English teacher is leaving a Easter .

Seen today some parents protesting outside a school as it was stopping pupils using toilets during lesson time , it’s a story I see time & time again esp about toilet use and i just have to ask do parents know that kids meet up in toilets to vape, Snapchat ect so unfortunately can’t have a endless pass on toilet use as classes would be half empty and seniors would just be going round all day getting them back to lessons .

The point I’m making is being a teacher in today’s society is a really tough job and parents just don’t give enough support in getting behind Childs school . I would love those 50 parents there today to maybe go and spend a day in the school and see why toilet passes are needed and how hard it is at best of times to engage a class of 30 12-14 yr olds or 15/16 yr olds .

Listening to Sil friend who’s a really good teacher feel so deflated and unhappy is sad .
Also the teacher who committed suicide this week the day before she was due in court for catching pupils hair while confiscating phone, leaving a husband and 2 daughters devastated as well as many colleges.

So when they liaise with lots of other places and come back with the answer that locking the toilets was the best option, will you think it’s a good idea then or will you continue to complain?

Just be honest, you don’t care about getting more opinions or a wider input - you want your way.

Maybe we could learn from prisons as "other institutions" and put a toilet in the corner of the classroom.

I think teachers should just be able to teach.

No one said it was better. We knew then 34 people in a class was not conducive to learning.

but if business models have no place in schools, if politics have no place in schools, who should be managing schools? (not gove) It always amazes me that education ministers have no teaching or school management (bar 1 whose hands were tied) experience which also seems ridiculous to me.

I think those working in it should have the say. But the institution as it is now is not good for the children or the teachers and requires a teacher led overhaul. I don’t have to agree with everything but it needs to be given a chance and not change with the political wind.

I don’t have the answer for you DNAshelicase but thank you for trying. Friend has the same problem but she’s accused of being more in favour of boys so has all the girl parents on her back constantly. It’s a bigger story then I could put on here but the short of it is some parents are just blind to their child’s poor behaviour.

It always amazes me that education ministers have no teaching or school management (bar 1 whose hands were tied) experience which also seems ridiculous to me.

And yet you've just spent a not insignificant amount of time arguing that headteachers should spend their time 'liaising' with people who have no teaching or school management experience.

I will continue to advocate for my child and her personal circumstances. That is my job as her parent. But if her periods were to settle down I would tell her what I told her initially when I wasn’t aware of how bad it was, to prepare and suck it up.

In any event do any of these responses sound like that’s ever going to happen?

What is it you want to achieve, Faultymain5?

Is if that all children can go when they want, because the problems with that have been clearly set out.

Or just your daughter? Because a PP has already suggested how that might be easily achieved.

Yes I have, to get other ideas, since the current ones aren’t working. Not to run the bloody place.

I know you think you did something there but I really am not trying to replace headteachers or teachers with laypeople.

And like the first thing this school decided to do was lock the toilets in lesson times without ever having tried out anything else or there being an actual serious problem.

Exactly. A lot of people seem to think that schools are little bubbles cut off from each other and the rest of the world. Or that Headteachers don't look at research, aren't aware of other types of workplace practices, don't look into methods used in other schools, don't have a board of governors made up of people from different sectors who have experience and can give input on a range of issues etc. Schools are not 'isolated'. Ideas are not what schools are lacking.

I find it interesting how people are so quick to tell school how they should arrange things.

Do these people do the same for their local hospital, or library, or police station, or court, etc?

Something else I have noticed is that parents often like their children being taught by young, recently qualified teachers. Do they feel the same about other newly qualified professionals, such as opticians, dentists, GPs, solicitors, etc? Because I think that for other professions experience is valued, but it isn't for teachers. It's as if teachers aren't viewed as trained, qualified experts in the same way.

So, hold up.

You’ve complained on this thread how outrageous you think it is that children are told to “suck it up” when, in reality, the only person anywhere who has actually said that to any child is you?!?!

Secondly, you’ve been told exactly how to fix your DD’s situation and don’t want to do it the easy way. You want to kick off, cause a fuss and not resolve things instead? It’s all about “advocating” rather than actually helping her, right? 🙄

Thirdly, the liaising/wider input/etc has happened and does happen. Just not with you. Because you don’t have anything to add to the conversation. You don’t have any valid insight. In the same way that I don’t expect to be consulted on who should win the Nobel Prize for Economics, you shouldn’t expect to be consulted on things you know nothing about.

As a teacher who has got out and as a parent it's horrendous both for children and staff. DD's school can't recruit maths teachers - are now recruiting from overseas, paying visa's. Science teachers are slim on the ground. Head teacher is not a strong enough leader, the school is struggling. Majority of teachers there are great but due to lack of staff and trying to over compensate for some of the bad teachers which have left they are over worked and stressed and can't imagine many are going to keep going.

As a parent am having to jump through hoops to prevent the government fining me for not sending my SEN child with MH problems into such an environment where the behaviour of some children is atrocious. Interestingly some of the parents seem to be more up in arms regarding the new behaviour policy than anything else as its just not fair on their little darlings.

Our education system is no longer fit for purpose thanks to our government - our teachers and children are suffering. Thank you to those teachers hanging on in there but wouldn't blame you for getting out!

Definitely down to the SLT. I am Primary and think having a supportive SLT helps.
My children go to secondary and the head is fair but form. He makes it quite clear to parents of potential year 7's that an education is a privilege and his teachers have a right to teach. The school has a few issues but the whole SLT is really strong and supports staff. Massive difference if you feel you have support behind you.

I left teaching after 15 years. When I was training, the teacher who was my mentor 20 years ago, told me that it wouldn’t be a career that he believed was possible to do long term due to risks to mental health. He was right.
My children are in early secondary and y6 and I really do worry that there won’t be many teachers left in the future.
On their class WhatsApp groups the disrespectful comments from other parents about their schools and teachers have reassured me that leaving was the right thing to do. Everyone seems to know better than teachers and school staff.
Many of the teachers who were near retirement when I started said they wouldn’t have dreamed of staying in teaching if things had been as they were and that was 20 years ago. I can’t imagine what they would think now.

Denying access to the toilets violates their human rights

@Dijoduo oh sorry should I say it the kind way “life’s not fair” or “that’s just the way it is”. Because that’s just “Suck it up” in a different format.

Im not sure where I said I want to cause a fuss and kick off and forgive me if I missed a way to deal with my daughter’s personal issue and haven’t addressed it. But ultimately it’s not right for anyone to not have access to toilets and I will push for that initially especially when kids are told there’s enough time during break when the teachers know it genuinely isn’t true, for reasons I won’t go into at their school.

Well thanks for that insight but others could have put me straight on that a while ago they never did, not sure why, probably my patronising tone Gets backs up. Liaising with other institutions (not just educational ones) is not a unique idea, after all. I stand corrected and down.

I will always bow down to a teacher’s superior knowledge of what happens in schools (including my child’s behaviour in school) (thankfully according to reports she’s who we think she is at school) but I will always question when something doesn’t sound reasonable. Respecting authority is one thing however my following blindly is never going to happen.

Dd periods became more heavy in her last 2 yrs at school , got tablets to reduce flow/clots , picked up some period knickers and asked for toilet pass . Think she may have used a couple of times but didn’t take the piss with it . My son would only go if desperate .

Some parents love the drama and kicking of with staff about rights being taken away . I understand why toilets are locked during lesson time , my kids know and I suspect see why they are locked . I look after their individual needs as a parent and work with the school . I don’t feel the need to go shouting outside the school .

At this particular school it’s probably gone past communication now .

I always pop up on these threads in support of teachers. Most parents just do not get the huge responsibility in teaching a class of 30 students. Teachers are not allowed to nip out to the loo and leave a class unattended. You would be sacked if you left the classroom and there was an incident. It would appear some of the posters believe that students have rights but adult teachers do not have rights. I also left teaching after 30 off years in my early sixties after a good friend and colleague killed herself after being accused of shoving a student. Of course she hadn't done it and the teacher was not told that the student had made the same accusation against another teacher two weeks previously. The student was devastated by the death of the teacher. She hadn't meant it etc.
Treat teachers the same as any other working professional. Why should kids be allowed to use the toilet on demand but teachers are not allowed the same rights? Students are always excused because they are the children and we are the adults so no real sanctions for students. Teachers are sanctioned if students do not achieve predicted grades, in spite of the fact that students choose to waste time and not do homework.
No one wants to go back to the bad old days but there has to be a sea change with regard to flexible working conditions and zero tolerance to rudeness and violence towards staff.

Toilets that are unusable because they have been vandalised violate human rights too then.

Yep, if a school can't provide adequate toilet provisions they need to be shut down

So no school for anyone then. Or maybe just restrict who can use the toilet in lesson time so it doesn't happen.

If they can't provide basic human rights. Schools often do more harm than good, lots of people don't even realise

I can think of quiet a few children in my OK behaved school that would use that to their advantage, and twice as many parents that would complain because the school was shut.

This ^, well said.

Teachers are leaving Ds secondary school in doves

Most of us still use cars but, yeah, whatever will carry us. I keep telling my colleagues that this is the worst bit of the cycle, in two years it will start getting better.