Page 14 | 15 minute cities and the conspirators

ivykaty44 · 2023-02-13T18:08:43+00:00

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to ^everything^ and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156 I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off. Some cities have gone car free - https://theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

thehorsehasnowbolted · 16/02/2023 15:37

DappledThings · 16/02/2023 15:23

All looks very sensible too. Explaining to people how misinformation spreads and how to be robust against it.

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Who decides what 'misinformation' is?

It's been done in Germany and Poland, to appease anti-refugee sentiment. It will be trialled in Indiia.. Is there a global 'truth'?

Who gets to decide what people must beleve?

DappledThings · 16/02/2023 16:10

thehorsehasnowbolted · 16/02/2023 15:37

Who decides what 'misinformation' is?

It's been done in Germany and Poland, to appease anti-refugee sentiment. It will be trialled in Indiia.. Is there a global 'truth'?

Who gets to decide what people must beleve?

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If it's good by Marianna Spring it's good by me.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 16/02/2023 16:39

DappledThings · 16/02/2023 16:10

If it's good by Marianna Spring it's good by me.

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Riiight....

DappledThings · 16/02/2023 16:50

thehorsehasnowbolted · 16/02/2023 16:39

Riiight....

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Which is the same reaction I have to your posts so no surprises there

BoredBetsy · 16/02/2023 18:14

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 16/02/2023 15:11

Previous generations spent the vast majority of time either at home or in their local communities

Rubbish. People have always been on the move - work, pilgrimages, crusades, being a mercenary, being in the army or navy, being married to someone who was in the army or navy, being an imperial administrator, being a missionary, being an ambassador, being a merchant, simple curiosity about what another place was like.

But you're on a windup anyway so have nothing useful to say.

Well I agree with this. Humans are driven to travel and explore. There's no need to go to the moon, space or Mars except to satisfy the ultimate exploring nature within us.

Jumpingthruhoops · 16/02/2023 18:49

I'm not sure it is a 'Conspiracy theory' actually.

Google 'C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group' and you'll find a link to their website. According to that, C40 Cities is: 'A global network of mayors taking urgent action to confront the climate crisis and create a future where everyone can thrive.' The group's current Chairman is one Mayor for London Sadiq Khan, hell-bent on rolling out ULETZ and '15-Minute Neighbourhoods' as widely as he can. If you then Google 'C40 Cities + World Economic Forum', you'll find an entire section on the WEF's site relating to the 'C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group'.

So it's not a 'theory', it's all there in black and white.

BoredBetsy · 16/02/2023 19:27

The truth is often somewhere in the middle.
People really need to keep an eye on what's going on.
The advent of more technology is inevitable. It's becoming smarter and more sophisticated. It will be used for surveillance and monitoring and we must be careful to not allow the loss of freedoms.

Makemetry · 16/02/2023 20:56

Being controlled by technology is going to be incredibly damaging for society. We’re already seeing a society that is more violent and less tolerant. I blame the increasing dehumanising of the world for that - more of life is online and it’s harder to deal with an actual person. Things are automated and it becomes infuriating. These controlling technologies take it even further.

The 15 minute city is a great idea, but it needs to be created not enforced. I don’t think anyone sensible would say they’d rather travel great distances unnecessarily.

CuteOrangeElephant · 16/02/2023 22:54

RedRiverShore3 · 16/02/2023 11:04

So will poor areas get an Aldi and richer areas get a Waitrose with Tesco somewhere in the middle, I live in a town but wouldn't want to be stuck with Asda which is nearest but I never use

I live in the Netherlands where it's been a rule since forever that most people live within walking/cycle distance from a supermarket. I live walking distance from an Aldi and a mid-range supermarket, as well as a bakery and a butchers, and a 5 minute cycle from 4 other supermarkets. If anything I would say poor people without a car are better off.

It's still possible to drive to one even further away, I just never do because I don't need to.

OutofEverything · 16/02/2023 23:42

I have an Iceland and small co-op in walking difference. Would be very limiting if I could only shop there.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 00:25

Jumpingthruhoops · 16/02/2023 18:49

I'm not sure it is a 'Conspiracy theory' actually.

Google 'C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group' and you'll find a link to their website. According to that, C40 Cities is: 'A global network of mayors taking urgent action to confront the climate crisis and create a future where everyone can thrive.' The group's current Chairman is one Mayor for London Sadiq Khan, hell-bent on rolling out ULETZ and '15-Minute Neighbourhoods' as widely as he can. If you then Google 'C40 Cities + World Economic Forum', you'll find an entire section on the WEF's site relating to the 'C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group'.

So it's not a 'theory', it's all there in black and white.

It's not a conspiracy and it's not a theory.

It would be more appropriate to call it a plan

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 00:27

Well I agree with this. Humans are driven to travel and explore. There's no need to go to the moon, space or Mars except to satisfy the ultimate exploring nature within us.

Instead we are supposed to be dumbed down and content with our little bike trips within a 15 minute radius. You couldn' make it up

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 00:27

BoredBetsy · 16/02/2023 19:27

The truth is often somewhere in the middle.
People really need to keep an eye on what's going on.
The advent of more technology is inevitable. It's becoming smarter and more sophisticated. It will be used for surveillance and monitoring and we must be careful to not allow the loss of freedoms.

And cash

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 00:29

Makemetry · 16/02/2023 20:56

Being controlled by technology is going to be incredibly damaging for society. We’re already seeing a society that is more violent and less tolerant. I blame the increasing dehumanising of the world for that - more of life is online and it’s harder to deal with an actual person. Things are automated and it becomes infuriating. These controlling technologies take it even further.

The 15 minute city is a great idea, but it needs to be created not enforced. I don’t think anyone sensible would say they’d rather travel great distances unnecessarily.

Agreed, it's when it's mandated that it becomes unacceptable

BoredBetsy · 17/02/2023 00:43

"Agreed, it's when it's mandated that it becomes unacceptable"

That will be too late. It won't happen suddenly, it'll occur in stages. Most people will believe the reasons and accept each stage willingly.
It's like the 100 trips a year. It could be reduced to 50, then 20, then 10, then 0 with reasons given for each stage.
I'm not saying that's what will happen but it could. We need to be very vigilant and speak up collectively.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 00:46

BoredBetsy · 17/02/2023 00:43

"Agreed, it's when it's mandated that it becomes unacceptable"

That will be too late. It won't happen suddenly, it'll occur in stages. Most people will believe the reasons and accept each stage willingly.
It's like the 100 trips a year. It could be reduced to 50, then 20, then 10, then 0 with reasons given for each stage.
I'm not saying that's what will happen but it could. We need to be very vigilant and speak up collectively.

Yes, anticipate and prevent a boiling frog scenario

Jumpingthruhoops · 17/02/2023 02:29

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 00:25

It's not a conspiracy and it's not a theory.

It would be more appropriate to call it a plan

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Totally!

Original poster

ivykaty44 · 17/02/2023 06:29

@BoredBetsy

it’s not 100 trips per year, it a pass for local residents to use a particular cut through or rat run each year. Those residents have alternative roads to use and can go out in their cars using alternative roads as often as they choose.
by changing your language you make it appear that residents can’t make trips out, that’s not the case. The alternative routes will take longer by car and shorter time using other modes of transport and the cut through

OP posts:

thehorsehasnowbolted · 17/02/2023 07:37

ivykaty44 · 17/02/2023 06:29

@BoredBetsy

it’s not 100 trips per year, it a pass for local residents to use a particular cut through or rat run each year. Those residents have alternative roads to use and can go out in their cars using alternative roads as often as they choose.
by changing your language you make it appear that residents can’t make trips out, that’s not the case. The alternative routes will take longer by car and shorter time using other modes of transport and the cut through

So, longer journeys, more pollution. It doesn't help the environment and inconveniences people

Can you remind me again why are we doing this?

Ginmonkeyagain · 17/02/2023 07:45

The idea is you make it harder for people to use cars in certain areas, usually areas badly impacted by congestion or pollution, so they don't drive there or use other forms of transport.

It's not a conspiracy, It is a common policy lever to incentivise behaviour change. See also charges for plastic bags.

whiteroseredrose · 17/02/2023 08:38

I'd be concerned about the negative impact on local businesses. You can't drive and park easily so you drive to somewhere with lots of free parking.

They're trying to do something similar in my local suburb though not as drastic. Less parking, more cycle hubs whatever they are, and places for people to sit outside (rainy Manchester ??!!).

Local businesses thrived when the council tried free short term parking. But then they got greedy again.

You can't lug a weekly shop home walking 20 mins, if you're going to a posh restaurant you don't want to walk in the rain or be sweaty from your bike. I despair.

So I drive there, and if I can park I shop there. If not I keep driving to my nearest small town with lots of parking and spend my money there.

whiteroseredrose · 17/02/2023 08:38

Ginmonkeyagain · 17/02/2023 07:45

The idea is you make it harder for people to use cars in certain areas, usually areas badly impacted by congestion or pollution, so they don't drive there or use other forms of transport.

It's not a conspiracy, It is a common policy lever to incentivise behaviour change. See also charges for plastic bags.

Or they shop / eat out somewhere else.

GotABeatForYouMama · 17/02/2023 09:53

ivykaty44 · 17/02/2023 06:29

@BoredBetsy

it’s not 100 trips per year, it a pass for local residents to use a particular cut through or rat run each year. Those residents have alternative roads to use and can go out in their cars using alternative roads as often as they choose.
by changing your language you make it appear that residents can’t make trips out, that’s not the case. The alternative routes will take longer by car and shorter time using other modes of transport and the cut through

So you would be happy for others to have more cars, causing more pollution driving around their neighbourhoods as long as yours is car free?

QuertyGirl · 17/02/2023 10:18

@whiteroseredrose

Any data to support that?

DogInATent · 17/02/2023 10:23

I'd be concerned about the negative impact on local businesses. You can't drive and park easily so you drive to somewhere with lots of free parking.
Completely missing the point. If the businesses are local, you don't need to drive to them.