Page 9 | To think the head teacher should never have said the N word

LittleMissMe99 · 2023-02-13T15:57:36+00:00

For context the head teacher of my children's secondary school decided to address racism by saying the N word. She actually said that she had asked permission from the other teachers to say the word....they're all white. I'm literally gobsmacked. So AIBU to think she shouldn't have said it even if it was "teaching" kids not to say it?

lieselotte · 15/02/2023 11:38

Julyshewillfly · 13/02/2023 16:20

It really isn’t complicated. Highly offensive words shouldn’t be used in school. The only exception I can think of is maybe when reading a text in English but seriously, you don’t need to say offensive words so that everyone knows they are offensive. Unless everyone tells me their reception child was told ‘cunt is a naughty word, we don’t use it.’

The c word doesn't come up in (intelligent) literature. The n words do. In fact I was reading a book the other week which had the n word in a quote and introduced the quote as saying "in the language of the time". It was the -oe word though, rather than the -er one.

lieselotte · 15/02/2023 11:41

calling a woman a cunt in the workplace absolutely would carry significant consequences. As it should

Yes I would definitely report it to HR if I heard it being used. I know some MNers think its use is a badge of honour but it's nasty, sexist and just not necessary.

Hellsmovie · 15/02/2023 11:42

Here we go lol.

No I am not racist. Where I insist on using that word?

I've simply said it's not automatically offensive/racist when it's used.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 15/02/2023 11:45

OopsAnotherOne · 15/02/2023 10:23

It sounds from what you've said that she was telling the whole school that this offensive word, which was being said by some of the students, needed to stop immediately and was educating them on why the word was so offensive and not just like another swear word or rude word.

The children who did not know what word she was speaking about wouldn't have known what "the N word" meant. In the context of actually educating the children about the offensiveness of the word in question, but she had to say the word so there was no question in any of those children's mind about what word she was talking about.

Children are crafty and if she'd had an ambiguous assembly about "the N word", there would have been some children who wold decide that "no" was the forbidden N word and would have continued to throw racial slurs around the playground having found a loop in what the teacher said. The fact she told them exactly which word she was speaking about in the context of having a whole-school assembly to stop the use of the word, shows she was taking positive action to address the use of racial slurs in the school, even if it meant having to say the word just once to make sure every child in that room knew what she was talking about.

11-16 years don't already know that word is offensive?

bagelbagelbagel · 15/02/2023 11:49

'Nothing offensive' @Hellsmovie - have you read all the responses to this thread from black Mumsnetters? They're telling you it is and you're not listening to them.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 15/02/2023 11:50

bagelbagelbagel · 15/02/2023 11:08

This thread is giving me Diversity Day flashbacks

If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

FadoFado · 15/02/2023 11:51

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Hellsmovie · 15/02/2023 11:58

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Great reply. Cant have a discussion so you resort to insults

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 15/02/2023 12:01

bagelbagelbagel · 15/02/2023 11:02

I guess it's showing us why Black Lives Matter is needed as much now as it was two years ago

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I would argue the actively racist and unconscious bias deniers are more active now than ever. The sense of entitlement is breath-taking. People seem more willing to publicly share/defend their problematic views, often trying to pass them off as reasoned and harmless.

FadoFado · 15/02/2023 12:02

bagelbagelbagel · 15/02/2023 11:49

'Nothing offensive' @Hellsmovie - have you read all the responses to this thread from black Mumsnetters? They're telling you it is and you're not listening to them.

That person doesn't give a fuck about the thoughts of black Mumsnetters. They're determined, as a white person, to continue using that word when they please.

Hellsmovie · 15/02/2023 12:08

FadoFado · 15/02/2023 12:02

That person doesn't give a fuck about the thoughts of black Mumsnetters. They're determined, as a white person, to continue using that word when they please.

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You're making things up. Where have I said any that.

VoiceOfCommonSense · 15/02/2023 12:11

They can say what they want, stop being precious. It was an educational context..

TeaKlaxon · 15/02/2023 12:15

Hellsmovie · 15/02/2023 11:04

As Ricky Gervais said: just because you offended ,it doesnt mean your right

That's correct.

The reason we're right is the many reasons set out above that have largely been ignored.

I've not seen a single poster explain why we don't feel the need to speak other swear words or slurs out loud in order to ensure children know what they're not allowed to say?

TeaKlaxon · 15/02/2023 12:18

lieselotte · 15/02/2023 11:38

The c word doesn't come up in (intelligent) literature. The n words do. In fact I was reading a book the other week which had the n word in a quote and introduced the quote as saying "in the language of the time". It was the -oe word though, rather than the -er one.

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Lots of swear words and slurs are used in literature.

Hellsmovie · 15/02/2023 12:25

TeaKlaxon · 15/02/2023 12:15

That's correct.

The reason we're right is the many reasons set out above that have largely been ignored.

I've not seen a single poster explain why we don't feel the need to speak other swear words or slurs out loud in order to ensure children know what they're not allowed to say?

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And my example of it being by a white rapper unoffensively, has be ignored,reported and deleted. It's hard to have a discussion when inside gets deleted all the time

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/02/2023 12:25

I've not seen a single poster explain why we don't feel the need to speak other swear words or slurs out loud in order to ensure children know what they're not allowed to say?

Well, I can see that my initial approach to this was wrong but my view would be that swear words are just rude but not offensive in the same way as slurs are so they don't have the same gravity. I think dealing with rudeness is one thing but there's no requirement to impress upon children the absolute nature of the offense as there is with this kind of language.

I don't know whether that makes sense. If my child came home from school and said a swear word, well, I'd just say that I don't expect to hear that kind of language, it's very rude in the knowledge that it will be said among friends but hope that it wouldn't be in front of me/Dad/grandparents (I think it's important to know how to censor yourself when appropriate but also, I know that the hope that this language will never be used isn't realistic). However, there are words that I would like her to know can't ever be said under any circumstances or in any company and I would not want to wait to hear them to make that point. Never having used such language myself, I don't think I could bring myself to say it (and won't) but I think that's the difference that I'm failing to explain.

TeaKlaxon · 15/02/2023 12:29

StephanieSuperpowers · 15/02/2023 12:25

I've not seen a single poster explain why we don't feel the need to speak other swear words or slurs out loud in order to ensure children know what they're not allowed to say?

Well, I can see that my initial approach to this was wrong but my view would be that swear words are just rude but not offensive in the same way as slurs are so they don't have the same gravity. I think dealing with rudeness is one thing but there's no requirement to impress upon children the absolute nature of the offense as there is with this kind of language.

I don't know whether that makes sense. If my child came home from school and said a swear word, well, I'd just say that I don't expect to hear that kind of language, it's very rude in the knowledge that it will be said among friends but hope that it wouldn't be in front of me/Dad/grandparents (I think it's important to know how to censor yourself when appropriate but also, I know that the hope that this language will never be used isn't realistic). However, there are words that I would like her to know can't ever be said under any circumstances or in any company and I would not want to wait to hear them to make that point. Never having used such language myself, I don't think I could bring myself to say it (and won't) but I think that's the difference that I'm failing to explain.

But you ignored slurs in all of that.

We don't have to speak the F word out loud in order to tell kids that they should not use the word about gay men (or anyone else). We don't have to speak the word dyke out loud to tell kids not to use it about lesbians (or anyone else...).

Why should the N word be any different.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/02/2023 12:30

Can't agree with all of that, Socrateswasrightaboutvoting. I'm completely with you that it's not acceptable for any white person to use the word - though frankly I wish nobody would and it could just be left to die out - but it seems to me a dangerous path to insist white people don't get any say in the debate

Very obviously black voices are hugely important here and need to be listened to, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to hand entire decisions to just one group, whether that's the black community or anyone else

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 15/02/2023 12:47

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/02/2023 12:30

Can't agree with all of that, Socrateswasrightaboutvoting. I'm completely with you that it's not acceptable for any white person to use the word - though frankly I wish nobody would and it could just be left to die out - but it seems to me a dangerous path to insist white people don't get any say in the debate

Very obviously black voices are hugely important here and need to be listened to, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to hand entire decisions to just one group, whether that's the black community or anyone else

But why should white people be in the debate? Although I am Black British I would not expect to be part of a discussion as to which slurs (we all know them) the Irish (Eire or NI), the Welsh or the Scottish should or should not find acceptable even if there are words they might use amongst themselves. Just as only the English can decide which slurs they find offensive and should not be spoken from those groups.

RaiseTheBar · 15/02/2023 12:48

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/02/2023 12:30

Can't agree with all of that, Socrateswasrightaboutvoting. I'm completely with you that it's not acceptable for any white person to use the word - though frankly I wish nobody would and it could just be left to die out - but it seems to me a dangerous path to insist white people don't get any say in the debate

Very obviously black voices are hugely important here and need to be listened to, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to hand entire decisions to just one group, whether that's the black community or anyone else

Black voices are not just hugely important in the this debate, they're paramount.

White people don't get "a say" because it is not their debate to have. It doesn't even affect them - other than to have to cease using a word that doesn't even apply to them and has absolutely no relevance to them.

White people don't get to oppress Black people for centuries and then dictate, argue or debate how the continuation of that oppression (the use of the n word, in this case) is not offensive in certain situations.

It is not for white people to make these decisions. White people don't even need to have any involvement at all.

Black people are perfectly capable of making decisions that affects Black people without ny input from white and non-black people.

bagelbagelbagel · 15/02/2023 12:51

I completely agree that right wing views appear to be more and more mainstream. We live in scary times @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting

bagelbagelbagel · 15/02/2023 12:52

And why keep harping back to white rappers using the word? They shouldn't have. Simple as.

TeaKlaxon · 15/02/2023 12:56

Hellsmovie · 15/02/2023 12:25

And my example of it being by a white rapper unoffensively, has be ignored,reported and deleted. It's hard to have a discussion when inside gets deleted all the time

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I didn't see that post - but I'd agree that that's also problematic and shouldn't happen.

But I fail to see the relevance to whether a Head Teacher needs to use the word out loud in order to crack down on racist language. There are any number of words we find unacceptable from kids (or anyone) that we don't utter out loud in the classroom.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/02/2023 13:06

White people don't get to oppress Black people for centuries and then dictate, argue or debate how the continuation of that oppression (the use of the n word, in this case) is not offensive in certain situations

I couldn't agree more, which is why I said how important it is to listen to black voices on the issue ... it's purely that I'm not entirely sure about the insistence that more general debates about the use of language should belong to only one community

I genuinely do get the rationale for this, but worry about the potential for more division

Hellsmovie · 15/02/2023 13:11

TeaKlaxon · 15/02/2023 12:56

I didn't see that post - but I'd agree that that's also problematic and shouldn't happen.

But I fail to see the relevance to whether a Head Teacher needs to use the word out loud in order to crack down on racist language. There are any number of words we find unacceptable from kids (or anyone) that we don't utter out loud in the classroom.

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I see your point. And yeah I agree shit,cunt,fuck are definitely at bottom end of the scale of things kids shouldnt be saying ,and you would definitely not hear them being said in an assembly.

I think the discussion went from The teacher shouldnt be saying this to being derailed by saying white people shouldnt say it.