To think the head teacher should never have said the N word

[LittleMissMe99]

For context the head teacher of my children's secondary school decided to address racism by saying the N word. She actually said that she had asked permission from the other teachers to say the word....they're all white.

I'm literally gobsmacked. So AIBU to think she shouldn't have said it even if it was "teaching" kids not to say it?

But this isn't a 'more general debate'.

It is about one specific term, that affects one specific part of the community. It is for that community to decide how they engage with it. As with other minority groups, there is a debate about whether and how to reclaim it. But that is a debate entirely for that community. There's absolutely no need for white people to be part of that debate.

I'm not black, but there are similar debates within the LGBT+ community about certain derogatory terms. That debate is entirely for those of us who are part of that community to resolve - there is absolutely no need for straight people to get involved.

I didn't ignore slurs. I directly referenced slurs in general and words plural.

Because the n word was and is applied exclusively as a racist slur to black people.
It relates only to that community.

There's no point in history where it was applied as a racist slur to white people.

The n word has no relevance or significance whatsoever to any other community race.

It would be extremely patronising for any other race to condone or appropriate its usage.

But I gave you specific examples of slurs that we don't feel any need to say out loud in order to educate children against them.

Still waiting for someone to explain why the N word, uniquely, needs to be said out loud by a head teacher?

I don't think it should be. I don't know why you're arguing that I think it should be. I'm just saying that swearing and slur words aren't the same thing. One is rude, the other offensive. I must have done a spectacularly poor attempt at writing that post - even worse than I thought - for this level of incomprehension.

OK, fair enough.

The point I was making that we don't need to say either slurs or swear words out loud in order to educate children that they shouldn't be used (whether because they are rude or offensive).

This x 100

I mean, I see that. But also since swearing is only rude, you can deal with it in a reactive way - wait until you're (inevitably) confronted by it. But I don't know, I feel that with slurs, parents need to be proactive and make sure the offense doesn't arise and I'm not sure how that can be done.

It's genuinely quite depressing. The really sad thing is that many of these views are coming from people you would hope would know better.

Can I ask what contribution you feel that white people would be able to add to a discussion on the offensiveness or use of the N word? I am asking that out of genuine interest. Did you see the short video which I posted, of Akala, (a light skinned (relevant) black Man, Author, Educator, Rapper and former user of the N word) in his Oxford Union Address. Akala - Educator, Author, Rapper and former user of the N word, on the use of the N word Does anything he say change your perspective on this subject being a discussion just for black people.

But they are two sides of the same coin.

The reason the teacher shouldn’t have said this is because no white person should be using that word in any context.

I know this wasn't a question addressed for me, but I do have an answer from my own opinion.

I don't feel that white people can have ANY input in a discussion as to the offensiveness of the word as it's not our place to say what is or is not offensive to others regarding slurs that aren't used to offend us. White people should, however, actively educate their children/peers/friends on why these slurs are offensive. By doing this though, we should point people towards black voices, both in the media, articles, talks and other forms of discussion where they've explained why it should not be used and why it's offensive. I can only do so much to educate on the fact it's offensive, racist, deeply rooted in a racist history and shouldn't be said, but it's not for me to put words in the mouths of those who have experienced it first hand.

White people can point other people to literature/documentaries/speeches/programs/articles etc written by black people who have, and do, speak out against this slur, so white people can further educate themselves. The onus is on white people to educate ourselves better, we must not ask black people to do the work for us and educate us (as I've seen online sometimes), but we must listen only to black voices regarding the topic. I don't think we have any input insofar as deciding whether or not something is offensive because that's not for us to decide. But as racism towards black people is committed in the majority by white people (at least in the UK) while we do not have an input as to whether it's offensive or how it's used, we do have an input into the education of other white people in reducing the use of a racist slur (and racism in general). Whether or not the slur is offensive will only concern the group of people the slur is aimed at.

I meant older literature where it is part of the text. Not modern stuff where people think it's cool to eff and blind all the time.

Even non-fiction actually, I had a children's encyclopedia which used expressions which would be considered to be problematic now.

A lot of books are reprinted to take offensive and outdated language out, but not all, and of course you don't know where someone might find an older book. An example is the Chalet School school books series which uses the expression "working or practising like a n-er" several times during the books.

It would be extremely patronising for any other race to condone or appropriate its usage.

Other races do use that word very often in music and the hiphop community dont seem to care

And that's where we disagree

Nobody thinks that any more. White rappers would be absolutely piled on for using it.

Are you Eminem @Hellsmovie? You seem desperate to find a loophole for using racially offensive language.

Can I ask what contribution you feel that white people would be able to add to a discussion on the offensiveness or use of the N word?

Certainly - and yes, I watched the Akala link and found it very interesting

Using OP's example I guess I was hoping that white people could learn - not to expect to be taught but to listen and learn - what sort of approach is best when dealing with the kind of situation she described
As mentioned upthread, personally I liked a PP's suggestion that the school could have used a video of a black person giving more context, then just following up with references to "the slur"

Probably I'm putting this badly, and I appreciate this wouldn't exactly be "adding" something to the discussion, but what I'm getting at is the thing about joining together in the discussions as opposed to one group simply dictating to another

You realise more than 2 races exist right?

I quite clearly said other races. maybe go back re read what I said and what I was replying to . Take your time it's not race . One word at time.

I see you've also resorted to making things up. I've never I want to use that word. So I'm not desperate to use it. I actually said in a previous nobody should be still using that word

I still maintain it can be said by anyone given the right context .

@OopsAnotherOne Thank you, that's exactly how it should be. @Hellsmovie This is what a constructive and more effective approach to this situation would look like. This mindset above is how one starts to be an ally not an adversary or gatekeeper and can be applied to the majority of situations where the issues are specific to one group not just race. @Puzzledandpissedoff I get what you are saying. I think the above may be what you are trying to articulate. The difference being that white people who are allies are cognisant with why they are not part of the discussion, so are not offended and do not find it divisive. These allies actively engage to be part of the solution.

I feel that although I cannot relate to being a black person who has white people telling them how they should feel (which is the topic in this thread), although it's not completely the same I am a woman who has had men tell me how I should think/feel/behave about things that only impact women. I know how angry it makes me feel with someone who has no lived experience of what I've lived through thinks they can tell me how I should feel about something from a position where they feel they know more about the subject than I do - is that what they call "mansplaining?"

Anyhoo, I'm off topic, but because I can relate to the horrible feeling of "how can you speak on my behalf about things that don't impact or concern you", I can apply that to this topic so when I hear black people say "white people can't speak for me", I understand. I get it. I'm not angered by it, or feel like it's dividing us, they're correct! White people cannot comment on or input to the discussions regarding how black people feel and their lived experiences - I have not lived life as a black person in England so I cannot offer anything useful or constructive. All I can do is listen and learn.

If what I feel as a woman being "mansplained" to about things which only impact women is just a fraction of what people from other races feel when white people explain racism to them and what should/shouldn't be offensive, I can completely sympathise and understand why it's inappropriate. I also understand the anger when they're told that white people should get a say on how they're feeling - one writer of an article I was reading today (I apologise - I've read so many of these articles today I can't remember which one it was in or who the author of this article was so will try to find it) said that being told how to feel by white people about racism brings her back to her ancestor's experiences with white people telling them, forcing them, to live a certain way, only use certain schools, certain amenities, excluding them from things, it reminds her that the battle isn't over. She still can't live her own experience without white people telling her how it actually is when she, as the one who is experiencing it, feels differently.

We are all part of one human race, but we all have different lived experiences with other people and the world depending on our age, sex, race, religion, so many different factors. We can work together, come together, progress together and solve these problems together but we cannot override each other, dismiss each other, ignore the lived experiences over the textbook idea of what something should be.

You do seem intent on normalising it for white people (in the right context what ever that means) just because some black rapper say it. As for race, there is only one race - the human race. There are different ethnic and cultural groups within it. The N word is a matter for discussion for black people in safe spaces for black people, you lose nothing by accepting that. Be part of the solution not the problem. Or is this really the hill that you want to die on?

The fact that other races do use that word doesn't make it right.

I believe that Ice Cube and Kendrick Lamar have both commented on white people using the n word in recent years.

You do seem intent on normalising it for white people (in the right context what ever that means) just because some black rapper say it.

Can you show me the quote where I've tried to normalise it because some black rapper says it?

in the right context what ever that means

words can have different meaning depending on what/how it's being said. HtH

@RaiseTheBar

I could name other rappers that dont care.

@Hellsmovie if other black rappers don't care, that's their prerogative but it still isn't for white people or non-Black people to decide what Black people should care about.

Why do you feel that white people and non-black people should have any say whatsoever in the use or non-use of the n word?

What possible value do you feel that a white person can add to this debate that a black person doesn't already know?