To say religious state schools shouldn’t exist?

[Mushroo]

This is probably controversial but interested in opinions on both sides!

I attended a catholic primary and secondary school and had a lovely education (my parents are actually quite religious). However, given how increasingly secular the UK is it seems quite antiquated and divisive to segregate schools based on religion?

Where I live, our closest primary school as the crow flies is religious (c of e) and as a now atheist we wouldn’t get a place as we sit at the very bottom of the admissions criteria (other religions are given priority over atheist). This means we’d have to walk past it to get to the non-religious school further away.

This leads to many people ‘finding god’ in the nursery years to get a place which I refuse to do.

I don’t see the benefit of religious schools, surely if you are a religious family, you can learn about religion at your place of worship / Sunday school or equivalent.

I think state school should be secular and teach all religions equally (including atheism as an option) and places shouldn’t be offered based on religion. State school places should be based on particular needs (e.g. adopted children, siblings and then distance only).

Genuinely interested in thoughts, AIBU?

Well we also need to get rid of Grammar schools too then
but the thing is it's not a level.playing field with schools
some are really shit and parents are you going to do.whatever they can to.get their kids into better schools ,my son has gone to Catholic school,s since he was three,he's in year eleven now he is a baptised Catholic and I was brought up.Catholic ,he himself identify as atheist though ( fair enough ) where I live the religious schools do perform better and seen to.have better pastoral care why would you not try and get your child in a bette r school?
incidentally it's the local Co hE schools that parents suddenly seen to.find their faith for in year four/ five

@x2boys its the same argument as grammar schools agree! In both cases, admission is based on a criteria that is more than just distance.

Grammars I think at least make ideological sense (albeit, I don’t actually agree with them) whereas religious schools seem antiquated and divisive for no real benefit (you could argue that grammar schools at least support clever children, in theory).

I do agree that religious schools tend to be ‘better’ but I suspect that is because it is the more engaged, supportive parents who will drag themselves to church to meet the criteria.

It’s akin to saying that the admissions criteria should be ‘first places go to parents who can commit an hour each week to litter picking in the playground’. Such a policy would filter out engaged parents in a similar way. (Which actually I would be less opposed to, as litter is less divisive and exclusionary than religion).

In your case, I completely understand why you would choose to send your child to the better school, but my view is that removing religion would result in a more level playing field for all schools, such that you could just send your child to the good local school made up of all religions.

If that was the case I would agree completely but unfortunately if your faced with failing schools with a bad reputation for behaviour or a school you can get your child in that has good pastoral care ,parents are going to do what they have to do ,in princip!e I dont disagree with you I just wish all schools were equal .

Absolutely, also for the fact they have a larger catchment area so encourage more driving

YANBU. I have voiced this opinion amongst friends and been shouted down. Friends say they 'offer choice.' There's truth in that but only if you are Roman Catholic or whatever.

There is a very good catholic high school near me as as you have described people have their babies baptised just to get them into the school.

I am opposed to any access to a public service being determined by religion.

In the same boat, OP (right down to having attended Catholic primary and secondary schools and my parents being devout Catholics)

Totally agree with you.

And @x2boys, I don't blame the parents at all. They are just doing what they think is best for their kids. I sympathise with them.

First and foremost each to their own.
If all religions were reached then it would make some good mythological reading lessons. Which I think would be better or could be, than just our religion copied x religion and now ours is the true religion ect

*teach

I agree. Segregation by any criteria - religion, wealth, anything - is outdated and breeds separatism. There is a religiously segregated school near me - children are bussed in from 20 miles away, while local children not of that religion have to travel elsewhere. Ridiculous.

I do agree that religious schools tend to be ‘better’ but I suspect that is because it is the more engaged, supportive parents who will drag themselves to church to meet the criteria.

Our area has an excess of religious schools. They're at all levels in the league table. The 'good' ones are oversubscribed and so can apply entrance criteria so engaged parents can jump through the church attendance hoop to get a place; this isn't the case for the poor ones. The result can be that if you don't play the game, your kid still ends up at a 'faith' school, just a poor one.

It stinks.

Yanbu. Admission by religion is also terrible environmentally as parents are far more likely to drive due to the distance to school. I am meters away from a Catholic school, yet couldn't get a school place there. Instead, parents drive large distances, and park on the pavement opposite the school.

You are being unreasonable in my opinion.

My children are both at fantastic schools and we are a religious family.

In Catholicism at least, each diocese gives at least 10% (if not more, im not sure of the exact amount) of funding to support schools in their area. This money is raised from parents themselves and parishioners.

If the state got rid of Faith schools, there would be many parents who would move to set up their own school and fund it themselves.

I do wonder when people talk about Catholic schools having good pastoral care whether that care is extended to LGBT children or those who find themselves pregnant while at school.
When I was at school, it was a very caring environment if you abided by Catholic teachings and traditions but the children who didn’t were effectively abandoned and even excluded.

If the state got rid of Faith schools, there would be many parents who would move to set up their own school and fund it themselves.

That would be fine, wouldn't it. If that's what they want to do?

I agree with the OP, a state school shouldn't be allowed to use religion as a selection criteria.

They are inclusive and kind environments. The 2 girls who have got pregnant during my DDs time at the school have been helped to continue their studies.

I have no problem with self funded religious schools at all.

My view is that state funded schools should not have an admissions policy based on faith (or lack thereof).

I would even settle for faith schools existing, but 75% of places going to local pupils with no reference to faith, and 25% based on religion if I can’t have them abolished entirely.

Completely agree with this

My son is16 and im.nearly 50 i.can't speak for all.Catholic schools obviously but my sons Catholic school seems far more inclusive then the the Catholic school.I went to in the 1980,s at least 50% of his school.are not white British ,they do educate them about LGBT,issues and one of his best friends is currently getting support from school.having come out as gay
by contrast the nearest other school.my son could have gone to.had a huge bullying problem.

You will just move the selection criteria to other factors. Religious school allow those who's parents can't afford the higher house prices to get into an outstaying school, the chance to do it by showing some dedication to a way of life.

Another issue which is anecdotal and based on my own experience so might no longer be accurate, is that my catholic school was 99% white British. (This is in a fairly multicultural area).

It meant my schooling was very homogenous and not something I think should be aspired to.

Getting the same level of education etc. is only going work when you stop people from gaming the system.

I think all religious schools should be banned whether state or private.

Sigh. I send my children to Catholic schools because we, as a family, value our faith . Not only that, though. In Catholic schools they learn, in NI where horribly sectarian unionists abused their fellow citizens, IRISH history. They learn about absentee landlords, the Land League, Home Rule, the truth about the 'Irish famine' that was actually the British Genocide..I could go on and on. Irish history is not taught in state schools in the North of Ireland so Catholic schools it is. My children, my choice.

My kids go to a C of E school op and there are no admissions criteria requiring you/kids to be C of E. So I'm surprised to hear that your local school does require this!

I agree, I would do away with them if it was up to me. So far though it's not been terrible, from what I've worked out my children have to pray every day and there's a lot of religious pop music at assembly that I semi-joke is indoctrinating them...

We're in a grammar area too so as well as not having the primary I would have chosen in an ideal world, they'll probably end up at the only secondary modern in town which has had the top creamed off and just been rated requires improvement by ofsted. Not ideal. It's that or hot house them for grammar which I wouldn't do.