Life is too expensive and not enjoyable.

[buildingourdreams]

I am only 26 years old and I am tired

H and I both earn okay money both work ft and I sometimes do part time work too

We've 2 boys under 7 and After rent bills and food and petrol we have not a penny .
This is with our parents helping with childcare we don't even have to pay childcare for the boys thankfully 🙏

We Can't go on holiday. Can't even have a takeaway or my nails done

We rent and Can't save for a house to buy don't get any benefits other than the basic Cb about £200 month. (And I don't expect or want handouts anyway)

Is this our life now ? Don't tell me to get a better job as I might do as I get older but this is not the point I'm making . If someone works full time they should be able to afford a few treats in life and specially with 2 incomes!

I worry constantly that we are failing our kids and should I even have had them? And also Like, what will even become of people like us when we're old ?

@TheLostGiraffe
Okay. I hope you are right and I am wrong.
I think you’ll find a more sympathetic government at the next election.
Can I say, sincerely, that having slowed down and taken the time to explain to me how you see things, I appreciate it and I feel like I have benefitted from your insight.

I will save and not go on holiday or put our heating on, because If you’re wrong I think my family will be all the better for starting our hard times early. Maybe it’s a fear play, and I am wrong. I hope so for everyone worse off than myself. As I say, we have no home of our own, and we’d like one one day.

Its selfish, but a collapse in house prices may be the only chance we have of owning a cheap house, and retirement with no home leeks bleak to me.

Maybe we’ll turn up on the same thread in a year or two and you can tell me, ‘I told you so.’ I’ll take it on the chin and raise a glass to you. I hope so. If things other way round, I’ll have switched off my internet access by then.

💐

A collapse in house prices is only good if you are a cash buyer or have a lot of equity/a big deposit. It's not great for most typical FTBs who only have a 10% deposit.

I might be wrong but I think your budget was 150k (I might have misremembered). At that level, if it fell 50k, and you have a 20k deposit, I expect that you would have been able to afford to buy previously and not rent so any savings made from waiting would be marginal. So a house price crash does not benefit you as much as a wealthy FTB with a £1 million budget for a mansion flat in Kensington. I expect those can fall 30% and such buyers would have big deposits anyway so could save a lot of money..

The discussion was about couples earning more than the national median wage, above the welfare state threshold with is what? £40K and above? more? And the fact that, due to their family choices, they can cover all their essential bills, but can not afford to go on holiday or get their nails done etc.

OP hasn’t disclosed income or expenses, but it’s probably comparable to mine, and I posted a breakdown of our income and expenses to show that on £44K a year, also not entitled to benefits, and with only one tax allowance instead of two, we still have a spare £700 a month of which we save £500.

So the problem is not the income at all. The problem is the budget. OP’s gripe is that they don’t have enough spare money to spend on what they want, because they are already spending all the sale money they do have on other things they want.

I drew the comparison to a cleaner on minimum wage living on benefits, because this whole thread is about higher than median household justifying what they should be able to have this or that because they work for it.

Well the maths proves that they don’t, or that they want too much, or that they just don’t understand maths.

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better, and as @TheLostGiraffe has gone to great pains to point out to me, we can fix this thing. But that’s a good few years away of steady or accelerated decline.

And all the affronted justification of why people are entitled to this or entitled to that, in a world where no one owes anyone a living, only serves to make already unhappy people more stressed and more happy because it perpetuates their entitlement mentalities.

... and no, I most definitely are not telling anyone how to work. I’d suggest staying at home with your kids and saving the cost of childcare and a second car and all that jazz. It makes life A LOT cheaper clearly.

I’m hoping to have a £25-30K deposit on a £120-130K house. As I see it that’d be a £100K mortgage at more that 20% down, and I think we can service that debt (at a stretch) for 5 years even if the interest rate hit 15%.

The house price decline thing is merely a hope that current houses outside of what we can afford drop into our affordability bracket. I.e. we get a better house for our money than what we are currently looking at.

It also damages long term earning potential. I got a pay rise of 19k this year. Women who give up their jobs to save on childcare nwoild miss out on three or four years of career progression which could translate to many tens of thousands over the years. How many cold nights does one have to endure to make that up..

Honestly as someone who bought, earnings make the biggest difference, not saving. The reason why we can even think of upgrading now is because we have increased our earnings since 2019 ( salaries in our sector financial services have grown 15% since 2019)... And we go on 6 foreign holidays per year. No car though and no new tech by and large. Inequality is such that it is very difficult to buy a property by saving alone. The only reason why we bought is because DH was earning in excess of 50k when we bought and that is above London median. Most home owners (in late 2019/2022) earn in excess of the median wherever they live. Even those that move miles out. The bank decides how much you borrow based mainly on what you earn and not how much you spend on restaurants and the like. Even with high interest rates, the biggest difference is earnings. In

I suspect the current thinking in Whitehall is that if they leave things as they are and ‘manage the decline’, as people slide into poverty the job openings will be filled by those who currently choose not to participate.

I can’t quite believe that there are millions of job openings and at the same time, millions of people who left the workforce during Covid and decided, fuck it, I’ll stay at home and live on benefits. There’s something not right about that picture.

Yes, I'm not sure that's an entirely accurate picture.

The biggest drop in workforce participation has been over 55s. That's been due to either early retirement, in which case there's not likely to be a lot of benefits involved and higher rates of long term sickness. They may well be getting benefits in that instance but it wouldn't be a choice.

Which isn't to say that the policy response won't look like bleating about top up benefits whilst doing the square root of fuck all about the shrinking of the childcare sector and the expense: the new policy proposals don't necessarily do anything about childcare businesses not being financially viable. I certainly can't imagine the Tories will engage in any acknowledgement at all that their decision to let people access pensions from aged 55 has led to some over 55s accessing their pensions.

@TheLostGiraffe
Okay. I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I don't know why, because I am saying what I think a Government should do. As far as I can see neither the current lot or the opposition will do what I'm suggesting so things will likely continue to get increasingly worse.

I think you’ll find a more sympathetic government at the next election.

I wish this way true but even if the other lot get in we'll likely trade on bunch of ideological and ineffective nonsense policies for another and they still will ignore at least half of the problem. They are all cowards and do not have the sense of conviction to do what is needed because they are so desperate to remain popular.

Can I say, sincerely, that having slowed down and taken the time to explain to me how you see things, I appreciate it and I feel like I have benefitted from your insight.

That is really nice to hear. You don't have to agree with me of course but I appreciate that you listened and considered what I said. That is all any of us can do.

I will save and not go on holiday or put our heating on, because If you’re wrong I think my family will be all the better for starting our hard times early. Maybe it’s a fear play, and I am wrong. I hope so for everyone worse off than myself. As I say, we have no home of our own, and we’d like one one day.

Sadly I think you are correct in how things will play out. My point was just that there are other options, and that the false narrative that this or that person has to pay is madness when there are measures that could be taken that improve things for everyone, across the board. And maybe make it easier for you to get the home you want, without that needing to be at the expense of others losing theirs.

Its selfish, but a collapse in house prices may be the only chance we have of owning a cheap house, and retirement with no home leeks bleak to me.

I do understand your frustration. I have supported myself since I was a teenager and it is horrible the situation many people are in, including you.

Maybe we’ll turn up on the same thread in a year or two and you can tell me, ‘I told you so.’ I’ll take it on the chin and raise a glass to you. I hope so. If things other way round, I’ll have switched off my internet access by then.

I hope things get better for you, and for everyone, me included! I wish I had more hope that anybody would do the simple things that need to be done to make that a reality. Certainly would be no "I told you so", I'd be shocked if any Government actually implemented the policies needed. But I hope you manage to find a way through it all.

💐

I worked before I got married and had DD. Don’t have a degree, so earning potential in the corporate world is limited. DH earned about £20K when we met, the £30 when we had DD, and £44K for the past 3 years. So me working would cripple us financially, and TBH I love homeschooling DD.

But yes, I can see that those who already have an established career damage it if they stop. However, many of us are limited in career prospects to begin with, don’t have careers to damage, or are unfortunately forced to be cleaners or checkout staff through necessity rafters than choice.

So when I look at my mum, or my SIL, and what they go through, and those around us, and then I see threads where people earning high wagers are complaining that they can’t do their nails or go on holiday, and I know that I’m in a worse position than they are and I have £700 spare in my budget, I just have to point out the real world of people struggling out there, and the blatant entitlement of wanting too much and not being willing to work for it.

As a lone parent since mine we babies, this was never an option. Aside from the cost I feel sad every day about how much time in their early childhoods I have missed. Just do bear in mind that some things you think are decisions really aren't.

I certainly can't imagine the Tories will engage in any acknowledgement at all that their decision to let people access pensions from aged 55 has led to some over 55s accessing their pensions.

😂😂

So when I look at my mum, or my SIL, and what they go through, and those around us, and then I see threads where people earning high wagers are complaining that they can’t do their nails or go on holiday, and I know that I’m in a worse position than they are and I have £700 spare in my budget, I just have to point out the real world of people struggling out there, and the blatant entitlement of wanting too much and not being willing to work for it

I am sorry your family are struggling. And what I've been saying is that that should not be the case: salaries need raising across the board and there is only one way to fix that.

But please do bear in mind that when you look at your income and outgoings, and struggle to understand why someone earning a much higher salary might struggle, that as I said earlier circumstances are different. For example I earn well, but to do so I have to live in expensive place. I am a lone parent so obviously have high childcare expenses that you don't, compounded by being in an expensive area. And my children can't go to standard childcare, so I have to hire nannies for every hour I work. So by the time I've been taxed and paid our living costs and childcare what looks like a good salary on paper means that not in a million years - even if I lived incredibly frugally - could I save £500 like you say you are doing. That's just the one example of me. But people's circumstances are different for very many reasons and you can't just look at income and say if it's the same or more than yours - without any idea of the outgoings or circumstances - and say that they should have loads of money left otherwise they must be irresponsible. In many cases that really isn't what is happening.

Fucks sake….this thread needs to end🙄

Okaaayyy. Nobody is forcing you to look at it.

"but you really have to make choices these days like buy a house OR have kids in your 20s."

Some people would never have kids if they decided to wait until they bought a house. If the average age of a first time buyer is 36 - and I'm surprised it's that low tbh - that doesn't give you a lot of time there.

If you both work full time and have no childcare costs then I’m struggling to see how you would have no money leftover. I mean that genuinely, maybe if you post your income and outgoings we can help you find areas to cut back on so that you can save? Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can really help.

Would you consider emigrating?

Does staying at home with your kids make your gas and electric cheaper? Mortgage? Rent? Food bill?

Please tell us how it does since these are the actual issues op (and me) are facing.

It's circumstance, rather that active choice a lot of the time.

@YouHaveAnArse Very true. I had mine late, and only just.
@TheLostGiraffe Granted (re. different circumstances), but you have posted a lot on this thread, and not once have I seen you complain that you can’t get your nails done or go on holiday. Me thinks when things start to get really hard, you’ll deal with it and won’t complain, unless maybe it directly affects your kids. Some people complain and ask for their hands held and heads patted. They’re not interested in exploring issues they may have. They just want to sound off. Others just get on with life in the best way they know how.
I hope you have a safety net if things get worse, and I hope I don’t end up living in a caravan on SIL’s driveway.
Sadly I cannot see anyone who has the gumption or integrity to stand up to the WEF. Is there anyone in government who does not want to take this country to war? But the at least they get to blame someone for all the starvation and blight.

OP says she can afford everything, but that she’s unhappy because the things that used to bring her joy in life, like doing her nails and going on holiday she can’t afford not.

And I posted my whole family budget on one of the early pages ‘cos someone didn’t believe that we could save £500 a month on a £44K salary. We switch outer heating off most of the time and use ancient technology to keep warm. We rent so our rent is higher than a mortgage would be on a comparable property, but we can’t buy because DHs salary only went up 3 years ago and we are saving a deposit.

Buy maybe we’ll end up one of those who the WEF say will own nothing and be happy. But then if we never had the dream and the two careers and the belief that the system worked in the first place, maybe we won’t feel as bad as those who lose the homes we’re hoping to be able to save and buy one day.

Its a dice roll at the end of the day. We just don’t complain when we want something and can’t afford it is all. We don’t feel we are entitled to those things.

I don't get my nails done or go on holiday. And my salary is over double your husband's salary. There is no spare money for such things.

And nope, no safety net here. I am the safety net.

If my health fails - as it well might soon - then my children have no alternative option.

I definitely would.
There are many places where you can buy a cheap house and a plot of land.
But citizenship is a problem, and trusting that in times of crisis the local government wouldn’t decide to pillage the non-citizens. You could always become the focus of blame, the same this country vilified migrants.
I think in times of geopolitical strife, when you have no idea which side of a dispute any particular people’s are going to come down on, I’m maybe better off in the UK.
Seriously, I keep looking at these channels from foreign estate agents showing people around homesteads in Portugal. It is so easy to imagine a nice rural life somewhere cheap.