Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To end a long marriage over this

74 replies

Jacqueline1985 · 12/02/2023 09:17

Married over 20 years
hes bad with money. We both work full time but never pooled money, we have a joint account for bills only but his money is his, mine is mine.
No joint savings. I save for various things all year, he spends and flys by the seat of his pants when it comes to saving up for his half of holidays. I expect hes in credit card debit. Always has money for drinks, drinks pretty much daily now
we have kids
doesnt do much to help around the house. Goes away with mates often.
yesterday, no housework, just got up and went out 6 hrs. Then came home in a grump as something he thought was saved for him to eat wasnt and then proceeded to drink beer and sit with a face like a smacked arse all night, angry, slammed doors, stomped around the house.
im done but am i being unreasonable?

OP posts:
CalistoNoSolo · 13/02/2023 14:27

Whether or not the card debt is your liability too, he is entitled to half of your savings so you need to tread carefully.

ImAvingOops · 13/02/2023 14:37

If it turns out he's entitled to half your savings, I'd hide/spend them so he can't. It would be utterly galling to be the responsible one, who goes without and saves, just to see him piss all his money up the wall and then want half of yours!

neslop · 13/02/2023 15:00

caringcarer · 12/02/2023 21:26

If you are married it makes no difference who ran the debt up, or whose name it's in. All debt is joint according to to law. One of my in colleagues had a husband who is ran in up debt ok n his card and in divorce judge deducted his debts before sharing out assets.

Not true.
You can't legally be liable to a company for another's debt unless you both signed a joint agreement, eg joint bank account, joint mortgage, joint credit card.
However, it does get more complex if you divorce, because the family court will make an order about all the finances, the aim being to make things fair. So if credit card was in husband's sole name but that expenditure was for the general benefit of the couple/family, then wife would be considered equally responsible and court can order her to pay half to husband, or desuct it from any amount husband is ordered to pay her. The husband remains responsible to the credit card company for the whole debt, the company can't chase the wife for any of it. If wife could show that husband's debts were incurred solely for his own benefit and she knew nothing about what he was spending it on, family court may well decide she doesn't have to pay husband any share of it. It will depend on individual circumstances and what the court considers fair and reasonable.

This explains it well:
samuelphillips.co.uk/blog/what-happens-to-debts-on-divorce/#:~:text=The%20court%20will%20divide%20the,name%20the%20debt%20is%20in.

Jacqueline1985 · 13/02/2023 15:12

He paid his half of the holiday last year on it. I imagine hes spent money on nights out on it. Buying alcohol/drinks at the pub 🥴

OP posts:
Cassy92 · 13/02/2023 15:46

I'm not sure what the point of aibu is - if you're only going to provide one version that's clearly unreasonable?

MysteryBelle · 13/02/2023 16:06

No, you’re not unreasonable at all. At the same time, it may be possible for him to change—if he is willing to. That’s a big if. Several issues here. How he spends money incl savings for his half of holidays and debts, how he spends his time, and his lack of respect for you and family life. His attitude. Drinking.

If it were me, this is what I’d try. I’d take the next day that he is off and spend the whole day together to work things out. If you’re able to have family or friends take the kids for the day even better, or plan movies and activities with snacks they can watch and keep busy and do in another part of the house.

The key is to remain calm because there will be a lot of emotions on both sides. You want this ‘meeting’ to be productive. Tell him your concerns in a straightforward way, not accusing, just facts and how you feel. You can have paper and pencil if you like to make sure you cover everything. Tell him how you’d like things to be, a positive picture, not only the bad things. Suggest specific changes such as putting all money into one or more shared account(s) and keeping a list of shared financial goals and a budget. Give examples of alternative behaviors to limit the drinking, to make time for family, share responsibilities, show love and affection and respect to each other. Say you want to be a team and to support each other. Not be enemies. Then, ask him what his thoughts are, what his resentments are, etc. Find a harmonious way forward. This situation has probably built up over time.

I’ve done this myself, Op, and it helped so much. No marriage or partnership is perfect. If the two people look at each other as enemies, no progress will be made. Of course it takes both to be willing to make things better. I hope your husband will try. Because I can sense the unhappiness in your post, and you have the right to have your concerns addressed and resolved.

Backstreets · 13/02/2023 16:19

You're not a bitch, you're not unreasonable.
From what you write he doesn't give you joy, support, good conversation, financial stability, or intimacy. If he's not willing to do that for you, what's in it for you?

RichardHeed · 13/02/2023 16:32

Cassy92 · 13/02/2023 15:46

I'm not sure what the point of aibu is - if you're only going to provide one version that's clearly unreasonable?

Eh? You only ever get one side of the story. If you’re struggling with that Internet forums probably aren’t for you.

blubberyboo · 13/02/2023 16:36

neslop · 13/02/2023 15:00

Not true.
You can't legally be liable to a company for another's debt unless you both signed a joint agreement, eg joint bank account, joint mortgage, joint credit card.
However, it does get more complex if you divorce, because the family court will make an order about all the finances, the aim being to make things fair. So if credit card was in husband's sole name but that expenditure was for the general benefit of the couple/family, then wife would be considered equally responsible and court can order her to pay half to husband, or desuct it from any amount husband is ordered to pay her. The husband remains responsible to the credit card company for the whole debt, the company can't chase the wife for any of it. If wife could show that husband's debts were incurred solely for his own benefit and she knew nothing about what he was spending it on, family court may well decide she doesn't have to pay husband any share of it. It will depend on individual circumstances and what the court considers fair and reasonable.

This explains it well:
samuelphillips.co.uk/blog/what-happens-to-debts-on-divorce/#:~:text=The%20court%20will%20divide%20the,name%20the%20debt%20is%20in.

It also becomes more complicated if the debtor falls behind on their payments to the sole debt because the creditor can seek a CCJ which then can be enforced by attaching the debt to any assets ie the marital home by way of a charging order. That means a previously sole debt then becomes a joint problem as the other party often has to pay up to avoid their house being sold

i appreciate in this case OP does not have a house but I wish people would stop advising that a sole debt is always a sole problem.

furthermore if one party is paying £200 a month towards debts they ran up it is going to eat into the disposable income of the household

Jacqueline1985 · 13/02/2023 16:40

Cassy92 · 13/02/2023 15:46

I'm not sure what the point of aibu is - if you're only going to provide one version that's clearly unreasonable?

Sorry i see what you are saying. He doesnt really do much with the kids. I do pretty much everything. He just doesn’t have the patience. He works all week and leaves early/back late. He then cooks dinner and drinks. I do all bed times/packed lunches/taking to and from school. He gets frustrated easy and i just take over as he starts shouting at the kids/slamming doors. Im trying to think of nice things he does…..not a lot comes to mind.

he did clean the bathroom this weekend and told me as if expecting me to say thanks, like he had done it for me 😂

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 13/02/2023 16:41

His attitude stinks.

ImAvingOops · 13/02/2023 16:44

Try to find out how much debt he is in OP and decide when would be the best time to divorce based on what a solicitor advises your joint liability is likely to be then. If you think he is incapable of clearing debt then you might conclude it's better to get out before the debt is too large. But you really need to know because you are guessing at 8k and it might be more!

I think in your shoes I might consider telling him that the marriage survival hinges on his complete disclosure of all credit cards/loans and commitment to repayment of debt and proper contributions to the household. If you could get him to hand over control of his earnings so you could manage repayment, then you could decide to leave him when the debt has been cleared. Assuming you still want to at that point. I'll be honest, it's manipulative to string him along if you are determined to leave but sometimes you just have to put yourself first.
And ultimately getting out of debt is to his benefit

Emmamoo89 · 13/02/2023 16:46

Yanbu x

Jacqueline1985 · 13/02/2023 16:50

MysteryBelle · 13/02/2023 16:06

No, you’re not unreasonable at all. At the same time, it may be possible for him to change—if he is willing to. That’s a big if. Several issues here. How he spends money incl savings for his half of holidays and debts, how he spends his time, and his lack of respect for you and family life. His attitude. Drinking.

If it were me, this is what I’d try. I’d take the next day that he is off and spend the whole day together to work things out. If you’re able to have family or friends take the kids for the day even better, or plan movies and activities with snacks they can watch and keep busy and do in another part of the house.

The key is to remain calm because there will be a lot of emotions on both sides. You want this ‘meeting’ to be productive. Tell him your concerns in a straightforward way, not accusing, just facts and how you feel. You can have paper and pencil if you like to make sure you cover everything. Tell him how you’d like things to be, a positive picture, not only the bad things. Suggest specific changes such as putting all money into one or more shared account(s) and keeping a list of shared financial goals and a budget. Give examples of alternative behaviors to limit the drinking, to make time for family, share responsibilities, show love and affection and respect to each other. Say you want to be a team and to support each other. Not be enemies. Then, ask him what his thoughts are, what his resentments are, etc. Find a harmonious way forward. This situation has probably built up over time.

I’ve done this myself, Op, and it helped so much. No marriage or partnership is perfect. If the two people look at each other as enemies, no progress will be made. Of course it takes both to be willing to make things better. I hope your husband will try. Because I can sense the unhappiness in your post, and you have the right to have your concerns addressed and resolved.

We have been here a few times. The promises to change etc. amount to nothing. Starts off ok but soon slip back. Asking if its ok to have a drink , putting it on me like hes a naughty boy asking for sweets and im his mum saying yes/no. Ick right there

OP posts:
WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 13/02/2023 16:56

Cassy92 · 13/02/2023 15:46

I'm not sure what the point of aibu is - if you're only going to provide one version that's clearly unreasonable?

@Cassy92

Take that up on SiteStuff with MN, not on someone's thread.

not to mention the AIBU reflates to HER action of leaving him, you don't need 'his' version. She's unhappy, she's NBU to leave. It's not complicated.

PonyPatter44 · 13/02/2023 17:04

I was with my exH for 24 years, married for 18 of those. He drank ALL THE TIME, and would only work on short-term contracts because the money was so good, but would frequently get booted off contracts early because of timekeeping and / or attitude. He earned shedloads of money but we never seemed to have a penny - because he drank it or spaffed it up the wall on his endless stupid hobby trips. I used to buy food in Aldi and hold my breath when I put my PIN in the machine...sometimes there was money in the account, sometimes there wasn't. I skipped meals to make sure DD didn't go hungry.

Don't let my life be yours. Call time on your sham of a marriage and you'll be so much happier.

WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 13/02/2023 17:04

@Jacqueline1985

its time. You sound strong enough to do it, when you wobble think of the kids. They don't need to be living in this tension and as well as you think you hide it, kids aren't stupid! They also don't need this to be their modelling for relationships!

of course he's saying he doesn't want to split & loves you. He knows HE is better off with you & doesn't give a shit that you'd be better off without him.

next he'll bring up the kids & a broken home <puppy eyes>. Tell him it's already broken, he broke it!!

jonestly once you've done it, and you & the kids are settled you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner!

be strong!!

Jacqueline1985 · 13/02/2023 17:33

WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 13/02/2023 17:04

@Jacqueline1985

its time. You sound strong enough to do it, when you wobble think of the kids. They don't need to be living in this tension and as well as you think you hide it, kids aren't stupid! They also don't need this to be their modelling for relationships!

of course he's saying he doesn't want to split & loves you. He knows HE is better off with you & doesn't give a shit that you'd be better off without him.

next he'll bring up the kids & a broken home <puppy eyes>. Tell him it's already broken, he broke it!!

jonestly once you've done it, and you & the kids are settled you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner!

be strong!!

When he was giving the puppy dog eyes and i love you last night i just kept thinking, no you have it too cushy here. Im a mug. Of course you dont want to be single.

OP posts:
L0bstersLass · 13/02/2023 17:35

Do you find him attractive?
Does he bring joy to your life?
Would you miss him if you didn't live with him any more?

Answer those questions and that should help with your decision making.

MysteryBelle · 13/02/2023 17:47

Jacqueline1985 · 13/02/2023 16:50

We have been here a few times. The promises to change etc. amount to nothing. Starts off ok but soon slip back. Asking if its ok to have a drink , putting it on me like hes a naughty boy asking for sweets and im his mum saying yes/no. Ick right there

Ah I see. Looks like the relationship is unsalvageable then. He’s not willing to make a serious effort. Could be the best thing is to move on for your own sake.

CocoFifi · 13/02/2023 18:44

You are not being unreasonable to be fed up, but at least sit down and talk it out before you make a rash decision.

19lottie82 · 13/02/2023 19:37

I had one of these (a grumpy husband who was crap with money), we separated last year and I am SO happier. LTB.

Cassy92 · 14/02/2023 00:22

@WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody @RichardHeed my question was perfectly valid. The OP could even see that and answered in the way it was intended, perfectly rationally. I was supportive in so much as stating her DH is very clearly being unreasonable, but with no counter argument what's the AIBU about etc.

@Jacqueline1985 I think the telling thing when pushed for a 'well what is the AIBU' - is that you don't have really, a single nice thing to say about him (which we can all feel when you're really mad at someone). My marriage isn't perfect by a long stretch. My DH can be lazy too around the house - but if I was pushed to answer 'what does your DH bring to the marriage' - I could list important things straight off the top of my head to counter the issue of my DH being 'domestically challenged', he:

  • is the main breadwinner and generous with his money
  • is kind to me day to day
  • makes a big fuss over me on special occasions
Etc etc

I think that's what you have to ask yourself. Does your DH bring other important qualities to your marriage?

My DH doesn't even know where we keep the hoover, or how to use the washing machine but he works his arse off to give us a good life. So I pick my battles. If you can't see what your DH brings to the table that makes your life better vs being single - then it's time to go

WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 14/02/2023 02:51

CocoFifi · 13/02/2023 18:44

You are not being unreasonable to be fed up, but at least sit down and talk it out before you make a rash decision.

How many more times would you like her to do that before you think she's allowed to say 'enough is enough!

We have been here a few times. The promises to change etc. amount to nothing. Starts off ok but soon slip back. Asking if its ok to have a drink , putting it on me like hes a naughty boy asking for sweets and im his mum saying yes/no. Ick right there

New posts on this thread. Refresh page