Who would want to be a teacher now?

[Painauchocolats]

I've just read an article (found on the DM) that a 53 year old teacher has taken her own life before she was due to appear in court for accidentally catching a pupil's hair. This was whilst she tried to confiscate the girl's mobile phone.

A male teacher (also in the DM) faces being struck off for shouting 'Who the hell do you think you are?" At some pupils who filmed tik toks during his lesson, and slammed his hand on the desk.

Sometimes teachers lose their temper, especially if this behaviour is incessant. Who can blame them? This is why pupils' behaviour is so poor these days, because there are no consequences, and because of things like this.

I personally know quite a few, but from a very different view place. They are/were all privately educated, and have, in general, gone to teach in the private sector. A couple went through Teach First, and have stayed the course, and are teaching in some pretty tough schools, but the SLT's are apparently good and supportive of their teaching staff, so for now, they are still there, mid to late 20's.

Not to mention the added workload of writing up IPMs for children with SEN, meetings with the parents on how their needs will be(supposedly) met, constantly writing up observations and behaviour reports.
It's unsustainable. Teachers spend all day teaching then have to plan, mark and do all this on top.

@Namechangeteach

That's absolutely awful.

Do you think a specialist support program would help

What did they do that sent you to hospital 😱

Thst sounds rough, I hope he is no longer under your roof! Sometimes your child is your abuser.
He needs consequences and it doesn't sound safe for you or your other children.

Really sorry you're experiencing that, @Namechangeteach, that all sounds awful.

For those who are leaving teaching what do you intend to do as job? I'm intrigued to see which jobs you think don't have any issues...

Intrigued, are you? Literally nobody said other jobs don't have any issues. In any case, these days most teachers know plenty of former teachers who have quit the profession, breathed a sigh of relief and not looked back, having found a job that doesn't involve being regularly sworn at, possibly assaulted and then quite likely being blamed for the behaviour, not to mention being held entirely accountable for the exam results of students who will not cooperate and do their work, regardless of how much you try to help them.

I know lots of teachers who are loving their new non-teaching jobs (or their teaching jobs abroad). They work in all sorts of sectors - civil service, publishing, hospitality, law enforcement, translation, marketing,various admin roles. My husband is one of them. He actually could not believe the difference in workload, the relaxed pace and the sheer civilised atmosphere of his workplace. I hope that helps with your intrigued question.

@notacooldad.. You need to go deeper and unpick why that child has no interest or motivation in learning.
Usually it's undiagnosed sen.
I don't work in isolation. There is a team of professionals involved including the school, health, social workers, mental health teams.
I agree sometimes it may be a SEN but there has been far too many times over the years that it is down to parents who don't give two hoots about their child's behaviour due to neglect or their own issues including their poor mental health, poor parenting skills, or indulging their child from an early age and then realise it is too late to put in rules and boundaries without a push back from their child.

Non-teacher. Seems to be a theme here of things getting worse when schools become academies? I realise that can’t be 100% of the story (parents are surely key) but is there a general consensus that academies are bad for behaviour and if so why? Too much paperwork and alignment of systems? What do teachers think?

You are very much in the minority. Both in your experience and your opinion

I'm really not. Otherwise, we would have no teachers. Obviously there are issues, as evidenced by the recruitment crisis and strikes. But there are hundreds of thousands of teachers, the majority of whom are choosing to do it.

It's the same with all careers - lots of problems and not for everyone but worth it for many.

I think the only way teaching is going to change is if teachers and TA's vote with their feet.
This is unfortunate, but it seems inevitable and things just won't get better until schools literally don't have enough staff to open the schools. And not just for an odd day.

I’m currently exploring my
options going forward and of course am under illusion that most jobs come
with their own problems. I’m sure a job must exist with the following requirements though:

1. not having to work almost double the hours you are paid for. My payslip says 32.5 hours and yet the minimum amount will of hours I do a week is 55. I’ve done jobs in the past where you might need to work through the odd lunch break or do an extra half an hour to meet a deadline but 23 hours of unpaid work each week takes its toll.
2. If you are assaulted in your job, something is done about it. When I was 8 months pregnant last year, a pupil threw a pencil case purposefully, directly at my stomach. Nothing happened, SLT weren’t even going to remove him from my class. The only reason he wasn’t there for the rest of the lesson was because he stormed off because he couldn’t see what the fuss was about. Under the new parent appeasing leadership, I didn’t even get an apology! Under the old head it would have been an instant exclusion! I’m not naive, teachers are verbally and physically assaulted on a regular basis (parents and pupils) but there has to be consequences! I’m also horrified that almost the same thing happened to another pregnant teacher upthread.
3. If you have been in your place of work from 7.30am until 6pm whilst your baby is in childcare that you are then not shouted at by your line manager for not working on a document after “you’ve had your dinner and put your kid to bed”. This wasn’t for a particular deadline, they were just mad because I didn’t put my work above spending an hour with my child/husband or going to bed myself. I already did put my work first at weekends when I sat in my study for 8-10 hours instead of going to activities with my family. I also got told off for being unable to get my child vaccinated at the weekend! I had picked an appointment that meant I just needed to leave ten mins early on a day that I had a free period at the end of the day - the only appointment that I could get that minimised disruption.

So, those are my 3 things on my wish list for whatever career I choose next. I’m fairly sure I’ll find a job that ticks those boxes!

@noblegiraffe

Unfortunately because its such crisis within schools I'd really hesitate to to rule out sen.

It's either sen or home issues.

Many more dc would be engaged if they understood what they are doing.

I've been through this process with my own dc during lock down in fact.

Children generally do want to do well and they want to please. It's us adults and education systems that put barriers in their way

I've seen what actually getting something correct can do and the merest bit of encouragement and belief.

Dc with dreadful home lives are an entirely different kettle of fish.
They need different support from amazing pastoral support and specific stuff targeted.

Usually it's one or the other though.

Hmmm, what do you think?
Nope. Kid got away Scott free. In fact kid said it was my fault because I wouldn't tell them the answer to something.

You are told in staff meetings that there is zero tolerance of phones and if you see one, you must demand that it is handed over, then take it immediately to the office and wait while they file it away under pupil's name. (You don't know the child, so have to rely on them telling you truthfully. )

It's morning break. You are on your way to set up your classroom on the other side of the site. You know you will have to move desks and collect litter before the pupils arrive. You want to put out settling activities to get them in quietly.

You see a child in a corridor using their phone. The child won't just hand it over. So you have to negotiate / persuade / follow them around to try and get it. Other children will be laughing, egging them on, swearing at you and FILMING IT ON THEIR PHONES.

You know other members of staff turn a blind eye, so kids will be shocked at having someone enforce the rules.

If the child refuses, you stand there being jeered by a group of teens. If you get the phone, you have to take it to the office, carrying all your books, laptop etc. The office will be busy.

You arrive late and stressed to a scruffy classroom with a queue of rowdy teens at the door. Everyone else's classes have gone in.

The other teachers are based in the department, so they have their own, tidy classrooms, cupboards of resources and they've not had to go out for break. They have already done the register, because their laptops stay turned on in their room. Yours loads slowly, because it's registering on the network.

You have to remember your seating plan and be prepared to argue it out.

You have to find pencils for all the kids that don't have anything to write with.

You are trying to find a marker to write a Learning Objective on the whiteboard. The kids have emptied the drawers.You have to clean the board first.

Pupils are wandering in late, stinking of smoke. The class cheers when they come in...

One time I challenged a girl using her phone openly at break and was sworn at that she was allowed to have it. Turns out the (one of many) temporary Head had informed the pupils in assembly that morning that phones were now ok.
Head just forgot TO TELL THE STAFF!

My heart goes out to you, @Namechangeteach . It sounds awful. I'm sure it's small comfort, but know that you're not the kind of parent that teachers complain about. We know that not every parent of one of those teens is an entitied apologist who won't back the school and doesn't even try to deal with their own child's behaviour. I really hope things get better for you.

I’m sorry you got caught up in this. School leadership has to start accepting that if they don’t enforce rules and follow through when they are broken, they are a part of the problem.

Unfortunately because its such crisis within schools I'd really hesitate to to rule out sen.

It feels like because you've seen it with your own kids you're now assuming that it's the solution to every issue.

The pandemic caused a lot of problems with children's behaviour.

Probably because they're stuck, having to consider what they can do without suffering a big drop in salary, forcing themselves to do it day in day out because they have no other option.
Alot stay for the holidays too and pension etc.
I'm one of them and I only do two days a week now, but even then that's only just bearable.

It’s parents that expect schools to deal with issues on social media 😵‍💫 and that’s when they happen outside of school! Imagine how much worse it would be if it was on school grounds. It doesn’t matter what policies done parents have signed/agreed to when it comes down to it they are unsupportive and often aggressive

@notacooldad

Agree but it's usually poor parenting cycles and or undiagnosed sen cycles.

Even getting ehcp is largely parents driven.
The parent's that don't see their own sen can't diagnose their own dc or get them help and unfortunately no one else can or will.

Which is why we need urgent change from early on.

I wouldn't call us middle class but we are certainly fairly well educated. And yet my own dd was floundering because no one knew what was going on.
I was told to wait and things would click. I was not given any other support or help. My this point dd behaviour was suffering because she was unable to read she couldn't keep up in class.
Her self esteem was starting to take a massive hit.
Year 2. The rot was well setting in.

Thank goodness for covid.

I see dc now in their teens who probably had dd experience and it's so late to try and turn that around by then.

@noblegiraffe

I do a lot of volunteering across different schools.

I'm talking about teens I see right now.

Has I not gone through a speficic journey with dc 2 then I wouldn't be aware of the pitfalls.
I'm very keen to make them well known and point them out.

@Namechangeteach it sounds like you are having a rough time of it.
I have a 16yr old with ASD, my dh and I being on the same page whilst managing their behaviour is a must.
I can imagine how damaging it is for you and your son that his father is going against you.
Sounds like a nightmare situation.

It's so sad, and worrying the way our society is going. This "disrespect" theme is endemic. What the hell? Why should an adult, any adult, have to respect a child, particularly when their behaviour is unacceptable. Why do we have to acquiesce to abusive and entitled parents.

Is it poverty, not if you look to somewhere like India, where education is seen as a privilege and a route out of poverty. Not numbers, if you look to China or South Korea where discipline and deference is part of society.

It depresses me, and I am not even a teacher, but my DD is looking to become one.

I do a lot of volunteering across different schools.
I'm talking about teens I see right now.

And you need to be really careful not to extrapolate your experience to every teen you see. They are not your children and have not had the same 'journey' as them.