Who would want to be a teacher now?

[Painauchocolats]

I've just read an article (found on the DM) that a 53 year old teacher has taken her own life before she was due to appear in court for accidentally catching a pupil's hair. This was whilst she tried to confiscate the girl's mobile phone.

A male teacher (also in the DM) faces being struck off for shouting 'Who the hell do you think you are?" At some pupils who filmed tik toks during his lesson, and slammed his hand on the desk.

Sometimes teachers lose their temper, especially if this behaviour is incessant. Who can blame them? This is why pupils' behaviour is so poor these days, because there are no consequences, and because of things like this.

"Usually"?

During the pandemic I think it became fairly obvious to parents that a lot of children aren't eager, self-motivated learners and that's nothing to do with SEN.

An awful lot of energy is spent in schools simply getting kids to do the work. So much energy.

Those who have left / are leaving / only have so many weeks to go - what do you do instead now, if you don't mind me asking?

I never find the skills as easily transferable as I'd hope!

Abraxan agree.

But in most professional situations there is also clients and customers.

I think everything might be better if that side was also transparent and respected

I spend a lot of time trying to figure out the behaviour, sometimes it can be undiagnosed SEN I agree, a lot I get from students with diagnosed SEN who even with a host of adjustments which are in place, still cause issues. I have a class of nearly 30 with nearly half the class being on the SEN register I get one LSA, sadly a lot of the adjustments I need in place for one student are counterproductive for another - the other half may have undiagnosed SEN or may just be badly behaved for all sorts of other reasons.

This is one class I teach, out of 180 students a week..... but as always and a huge part of what this thread is saying - its the teachers fault

I don't think parents understand what is happening in classrooms now. I work in an outstanding primary in a leafy London suburb. Most days we have incidents where members of staff have to restrain a child, it's only a handful of children that are involved.

^This. I think many or most parents are aware that there is some truly appalling behaviour that isn't or can't be fully dealt with, but they probably assume this is confined to sink schools with poor Ofsted ratings in dodgy areas. They would almost certainly be horrified if they coukd be afly on the wall at their children's supposedly good or outstanding secondary schools and witness quite how much learning time is lost to disruptive behaviour, not to mention the disrespect (to staff and other students) that goes largely unpunished. It's just become the norm.

I could never. In my sons school since he started in September, 1 teacher was beaten up so badly an ambulance had to attend and another was assaulted by a student. That is just the 2 he knows of. Scary! I could never do that job. Especially in a secondary school. I say that from a profession that is also struggling to recruit (midwifery) but teaching would terrify me!

I’m also a teacher (head of department) and a member of the Facebook group previously mentioned. I’m really good at my job, we get high option numbers and the results are excellent. But I’m desperately trying to find a way out, I just can’t see how. It’s really not the same job it was 17 years ago when I started. To be honest behaviour is pretty good in my school, but the level of entitlement from both pupils and parents is off the scale. We have department meetings where we actively talk about what the parents will do if we implement x/y/z strategy even though we know it’d be a good idea. We shouldn’t have to worry about these kind of things but we do. You only have to look at various mn threads over time to see what I mean. Teaching isn’t a valued profession anymore by many people.

@noblegiraffe

Parents probably don't realise their dc has sen.
Why would they, they probably don't know the signs of adhd or dyslexia.

Most parents assume that teachers / the school will pick that up.

Secondly, parents and even teachers who are parents usually recognise that it's hard to get your own child to engage with you.

Neither of these teachers have done anything wrong.
Heartbreaking one took her life it. I very much doubt it will result in any change.
Smart phones need to be banned from schools. Better for the school childrens mental health too.
There has been an enormous decline it what is acceptable behaviour in schools, and some parents feel they shouldn't be told off.
Schools are a place of education, not a free-for-all place where children can treat their peers and adults with so much disrespect.

@Noodledoodledoo

What age.

So much damage is done if this things are left, children from year 1 start to notice they are different. Then when low self esteem, boredom, the sense of being left behind kicks in... Other problems will manifest.

There's some truly awful kids at schools these days and I feel for the teachers, their hands are utterly tied by what punishments they are now allowed to give or not give, they can't even breathe at the kids these days without being accused of something, and the parents can be horrific too. The bullying little brats at my children's schools have indulgent parents who smile at them even when being told to fuck off, they're often "little princes" at home who can do no wrong or little princesses who simply never, ever get told off and laugh at the teachers when the teachers try to tell them off. A friend of mine recently became a TA to fit around school hours and she couldn't believe how awful it is these days, she wants to quit already purely because the children are just so awfully behaved.

Also, in many states, American schools were closed for around a year during Covid. Not much job movement in those circumstances.

I hope the school told the parents to take their child home until they were prepared to follow school rules.

I can remember helping out at a junior school with reading . Some of the pupils were struggling to read what was on the page . I asked if they could actually see clearly what was in front of them . They couldn't turned out they needed reading glasses. How did the parents not pick up on this ? I guess no books at home and not being read to.

I moved from secondary school teaching to advice and guidance work in a male prison for cat A and restricted young offenders and cat c adult prisoners.

Whilst it wasn't all sunshine and flowers I know where I felt safest and less stressed.

My Dh is a solicitor. He works long hours and gets incredibly stressed at times. But he says that there is no chance he could teach, especially secondary but also primary and that he wouldn't last a day in there. The level of stress, risk from parents and pupils, ridiculous work load which half of he feels seems pointless, etc without the pay packet to go with it means it's something he and his colleagues would never contemplate. If one of his 'clients' lashed out at him they'd be escorted out of the building, police likely called and he'd never see them again. Even those he deals with with Hugh needs wouldn't be just left to continue without back up .He certainly wouldn't be in the same room with them again the next day as though nothing had happened.

Noodle and no its definitely not the teachers fault.

I find a host of issues, a lack of proper stragety to identify sen early enough for proper intervention.
This alone would not only dramatically change teaching by secondary but also society. When one looks at the numbers of illiterate prisoners.

SLT being real and listening to staff and properly backing them up and supporting them.

More effective strategies to help with dc who really need intensive help and support with behaviour far beyond the remit of a teacher.

Secondary, for me my issues are in yr 10 and yr 8.

You have again blamed the teachers - the mention of boredom - I have one student who isn't bored if I let him doodle for the whole lesson but thats not going to help him and unless he has an adult with him he reverts back to drawing - 2 adults x 15 students who are like this is impossible.

There is no money to provide more support, the wait lists for assessment are insane

Not everyone has SEN - no is it a quick fix solution.

I've worked in education for 20 years and I've never known things as bad as they are now.

However I also see the stress friends have basically organising/paying for childcare during school holidays - it's a nightmare if you don't have family around.

I have a permanent, part-time job that fits perfectly around school which makes me incredibly lucky even if I'm not enjoying the job. Most of my colleagues feel the same - at the minute things aren't bad enough to give up 13 weeks holiday a year which coincides perfectly with our kids holidays so we all stay. We have seen a lot of people leaving for other jobs since covid but they've all been younger and without kids.

They are transferable but there's definitely an art to it. Have to make sure on applications that references to school specific things are minimal as most sifters won't know or won't care what that entails. Rather than listing what you do in this regard, really pull the skills that this demonstrates out. If you have time write down a list of all of the things you do as a teacher, and then within each one write what this shows- leadership, communication, planning, managing data etc and then collate a list of really strong examples and evidence of these. Your degree is also relevant even if not teaching anymore.

I’ve name changed to respond to this, but I am a regular.

I, sadly, own one of these massive, intimidating 15yo year 11s who don’t give a shit. He has a diagnosis of ASD, but honestly he uses it to get out of responsibility for his choices far too much. He was excluded recently for telling a teacher to fuck off (quite right too), and immediately accused the teacher of saying he ‘wasn’t actually autistic.’ Didn’t happen.

As a parent, it’s mortifying. But the best part for us is that he does it to us too. I am currently in almost exactly the same position as the lady in the news. I removed his phone from him, he reported me to the police for assault. I did NOT touch him. I did not do the list of things he’s accused me of. He knows full well the impact of the investigation on me, as I am also a teacher. I’m now suspended whilst being investigated for something I didn’t do.

It’s a miracle I haven’t unalived myself too, and the only reason I’m still here is that I have 3 other DC who need me.

DS has one parent (we are not together) who reinforces his behaviour constantly. Believes every word he says, even though he lies and manipulates with every word he says. It’s beyond frustrating, and despite me and DH begging ex to back us up over the years, he’s preferred to ‘get one over’ on me, and in doing so has utterly destroyed DS.

The general upshot is, parents are just as at risk from the behaviour of these children. I’ve had SS and the Police involved in the last few weeks, on the say so of a proven fantasist. We’ve been toothless in our parenting for a few years now, because he’s constantly threatened to say we abuse him if we put consequences in place, and because he’s ‘vulnerable,’ school believe him every time. But also want us not to believe him when it’s about their staff.

Everyone knows he’s lying. My life is in tatters anyway, and I’m not sure if I’ll ever teach again because, as they say, ‘mud sticks.’ The only thing I did wrong was be taken advantage of by an adult when I was still a child and end up with a baby with an abuser.

@KattyKattyKatz

Maybe they did raise it and were given " just wait it will click every child has their own pace".

Maybe they didn't and the school didn't think to ask the parents.. Has this child had eye tests?

Parents often assume there is a system that clicks into place and there isn't.
The onus is usually entirely on the parents to notice and investigate.

But many parents don't realise that and if they do raise issues and are told to wait they trust the school.

And sometimes it's not SEN, sometimes children can lack motivation and not engage with school for other reasons, like they can't be arsed, they don't see the point, their dad got expelled from school and they're doing fine, or their dad will give them a job so they don't need qualifications etc etc.

Or simply, it's easier and more fun to piss around then get sent out than engage with algebra.

@GuyFawkesDay the apple didn't fall far from the tree

Too many parents only willing to listen to their entitled brats. Defending them regardless of how wrong they are.

A lost life is tragic. But the reporting of this is shockingly biased. There is most definitely more than accidentally touching someone’s hair for this to get to trial. And I think the reporting, if you can call it that is also shockingly unfair on the child involved. This is a terrible affair all round.