To wonder how my Aunty Margaret is still alive?

[Marie2023]

My Aunty Margaret has just turned 70. She’s 15 years older than me and all the time I’ve known her she has been an alcoholic. She hasn’t been invited to any family gatherings since the 90s because she always gets drunk, causes a scene and ruins the event. She hasn’t had a job for years but has a partner who looks after her financially.

Aunty Margaret currently drinks a litre bottle of vodka during the day and more drinks when her partner gets home from work. She also smokes around 60 cigarettes a day. She rarely eats and is stick thin.

Recently Margaret wasn’t feeling very well so her partner took her to the doctor. The doctor ordered some tests which came back fine. His summary of the situation was: “Margaret is as fit as a fiddle, although should probably consider drinking and smoking a bit less.”

🤔

I am honestly amazed she’s still alive, let alone “fit as a fiddle”. Why is it that some people can abuse themselves like that for years with no consequences?

My great aunt used to smoke that much. She literally lit the next fag from the one she was putting out.

In my view, we place far too much faith in the idea that people are responsible for their own health.

It's almost seen as a moral failing to be ill, which is terrible for people who get ill through absolutely no fault of their own.

Same the other way round, we seem to think getting ill is just desserts for people who haven't been able to get their act together health-wise. Sadly much of this is also largely out of their control like addiction, poverty or social and cultural influences.

I agree.

I feel like this about obesity too. Ok, if you're like those people on 600lb life, you're going to be highly likely to die...but I don't believe your average fat person is in as much danger from their weight as we are led to believe. I know plenty of people who have smoked and lived well into their eighties and nineties and plenty of people who have led pretty clean lives and died young.

My Grandad died of a massive heart attack at 66. He was slim and fit, didn't drink or smoke. Unlucky but he may have died much sooner if he didn't take care of himself. My uncle (his son) recently had a stroke at 56 but did recover. He drinks and smokes so maybe it's catching him earlier. It does worry me as me and my mum both had preeclampsia which is also linked to heart attacks and strokes. I can only try and look after myself and hope for the best! I still believe it's more than genetics for most people though. My FIL is 64 and in a terrible state health wise due to his lifestyle.

My dad died at 71 after being an alcoholic his whole life, I was expecting his death for 20 years at least (not in a horrible way) and think he did good to make it to 71.

I was thinking this too 🤣
But then her partner took her to GP so he may have been fh one to feedback

GPS generally don't say someone is fit as a fiddle on the basis of blood tests results, they'd say results have come back within acceptable/ normal range.

And "she should probably consider smoking or drinking about less" is very likely to be in response to her claiming she drinks & smokes a 1/10th of what she does. Alcoholics always underplay how much they drink especially to GPs!

I can't imagine her partner would sit there spilling the beans! "And the rest Marg... "

My SIL was late 60’s and since losing her husband 10 years ago had drunk pretty much a litre of vodka a day. She thought she was invincible until she had a seizure in October last year. Ended up in hospital while they investigated.

The massive alcohol intake had caused the seizure even though regular liver function tests had come back normal. We later found out that liver function can appear normal right up to the point where your liver is in distress and you have advanced cirrhosis.

SIL had another seizure and went into a coma. MRI and CT scans showed changes to the brain consistent with alcohol abuse. She never recovered from the coma and died a few weeks later. I don’t think genetics have much to do with it - I think it depends on how much and and what rate you abuse your body. Sooner or later, one way or another you will pay the price.

@CountryMouse22 I'm sorry.

In the future hopefully cervical cancer will be much rarer, as the HPV vaccine prevents nearly all HPV caused cervical cancers, which is over 70% as well as vulval cancer, throat head and neck cancer.

I'm amazed how fatalistic some people are- it's not just genetics, it's a combination and you just can't deny how much some lifestyle factors are involved (smoking, drinking, lack of exercise specific diet). I agree others are less important- like being a tad overweight is actually associated with better (later) mortality rates than being normal or overweight, it's called the obesity paradox.

If you have bad genetic luck, even for heart disease, cancers, you can still stack your odds- not just by lifestyle but by immunization, preventive measures (e.g. prophylactic surgery like Angelina Jolie) and scanning.

Liver function tests rarely tell the whole story. You can have advanced cirrhosis and still have a normally functioning liver, right up to the point where it gives out.

Much of this is to do with generational wealth. If you’ve been wealthy for a few generations, there is an accumulation of health benefits.

@CherriesSpring this is very true and also these days you might want to jump into private medicine if the waiting lists are too long...

@Highdaysandholidays1 also of course lifestyle hugely matters. But you can have two people who smoke the same, and the one who is wealthier will be less likely to get a smoking related disease.

They did a really interesting study once on height, they looked at the graves of people who were tall and people who were shorter. Taller people = more likely to have had better nutrition etc = also more likely to have more money = died at an older age.

My 70 year old BIL is an alcoholic; he drinks at least 2 litres vodka and 6 cans cider a day yet apparently his liver function is fine.
He’s been an alcoholic for more than 35 years, a very heavy drinker since late teens.
I have absolutely no idea why he’s not dead.

So ‘unfair’ in some ways that there are some people who don’t give two stuffs about their health, are obviously not much use to anyone just carry on yet people like my fit and healthy, fun loving Dad dies at 63 from fatal brain bleed -

@MavisFlump wow. Medical science could probably learn a lot from your BIL! There is probably some buffers health wise in his body!
That being said, livers can really regenerate can’t they. Lungs less so.

@WTAFhappened123 I’m so sorry about your Dad. Had a lovely relation die of lung cancer in his 30s also, he had 2 young kids. Didn’t seem fair at all.

Not at all unreasonable to wonder, we all have awareness of our mortality and some people just seem to defy all the odds. And sometimes even when they do go it is not how you expect. My auntie drank to the point that when her husband hid the booze she drank perfume to try and get some kind of alcohol hit. And before that when he marked the bottles she just drank the whole thing and bought a new bottle, funneled it into the old one and drank it down to the line. Well her liver was like steel but her bowel wasn't and she had to have treatment for bowel cancer including a colostomy bag. She beat the cancer. Did the maintenance chemo. Eventually she was fit and well enough that they were ready to remove the colostomy bag and surgically reconnect things so she could use the toilet "normally" again. Developed a mild infection in her stitches following the op that she didn't get checked, developed sepsis and died of that instead.

See post about my SIL. Liver function tests can appear normal despite advanced cirrhosis. Doesn’t mean he’s not in serious trouble.

I'm amazed at the local well known heroin addict in our area who has been an addict since the age of 16 he's now late 50s still on heroin looks an absolute scruffy mess but still plods on with no apparent health issues. whereas people I have know who have lead a very healthy lifestyle have succumbed to cancer at a fairly young age. such as shame and it makes me wonder if there's some kind of preservative in heroin!

Healthy living doesn’t guarantee anything but increases your odds of living longer. Similarly unhealthy lifestyle doesn’t mean you will die younger but does increase the likelihood. There are always exceptions and outliers but it’s a mistake to think that it makes no difference. We need to look at large samples and not individuals when coming to conclusions.

One great gran lived to 96. She was so sharp witted but didn't do anything excessively. My other gran is 80 odd, chain smokes (but started later in 40s) and drinks a lot. Her drinking has recently got worse too. She's still going strong. One of my grandads had a mini bar in his living room and had a stroke in his 60s, which my dad said was probably because of the wine. None of them were well off.

I call bullshit.
Unless you were at the GP and heard those words, she’s just told people what she wants to hear.

Genetic and she probably doesn't drink and smoke as much as you think.

My grandparents all lived late 80s to mid 90s, my home country has one of the average longest life expectancy in the world. I dread old age when I can't do anything for my self anymore... I don't want this kind of "luck"!

I'm sorry to read this, my dad survived a brain bleed only to die from bowel cancer at just 64. He had also had angina, blood pressure problems and diabetes. There are some people who really don't deserve the hand they get dealt x