To find the word "female" demeaning

[LoraPiano]

I increasingly see women being referred to as "female" as in "that female over there" or "a female approached my husband" or "females like chocolate". I hear it from both men and women, but especially from the younger generation, and usually about younger women.

Is it me or this is a little rude and insulting? Like there are reducing them to their gender and completely taking the person our of it. It's not a female giraffe, or a female bird.

Am I old fashioned? What's wrong with just saying woman/girl/lady etc?

DalzielMilngavie · Today 12:23

^LoraPiano · Today 12:03
Wow I had no idea about the trans angle... but just because men/trans people are trying to appropriate the word "women" we shouldn't have to give it up and be content with a lesser word. I don't see "female" as a positive replacement for "woman" and wouldn't embrace it.^

But of course easier said than done and I don't know much about the gender/trans debate.

There's a government petition, that's almost got enough signatures to have a debate in parliament, to clarify what sex and gender mean in law. I think the lack of clarity is one of the sources of the change to make female a noun.

I don't think I'm allowed to link directly to the petition, so this is the thread you can find the details on.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2

The petition is update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic ‘sex ‘ in the Equality Act is biological.

The act uses the words ‘man’ and ‘woman’ , and is supposed to refer to the male and female sexes in the biological sense, but the words sex and gender have become so confused that, in practice, many women and girls’ sex based spaces - which are allowed to discriminate against men under the act - are mixed sex.

This is on the grounds that a man who says they are a woman, identifies as a woman, or who has a gender recognition certificate saying they are a woman legally and can have ‘female’ on their birth certificate also have a right to those spaces. Intact genitalia, which most transwomen have, makes no difference.

Basically any men could be allowed, as no one knows which are which and it makes no difference and the class, Men, includes on rare occasions people who are a threat regardless of their gender identity.

Organisations don’t want to risk being sued though.

If it were made clear ‘ sex ‘ is biological it might help give more organisations such as rape crisis centres the confidence to have sex-based women only service, or girls’/women’s football to have female only changing rooms etc

.

Like others I use the term female in certain situations as to me female is 100% biological woman. Can TW really say they are female if asked? I have used it when talking to my sons but only as a ‘Friday Night Dinner’ joke. 🙂

No they can't.

They shouldn't be able to say they're women either. They're not! Well they can say it but it certainly shouldn't count for anything much socially as well as legally. See current long-running thread re: rapist on college course and the girls/women who were forced to strip in front of him as he said he was a 'woman'. See also threads on Girl Guides, schools, universities, prisons, hospital wards, rape crisis, DV shelters and so on and so forth.

Even though I am 100% female, I don't want to be referred to by a dehumanizing term with dubious origins. That's hardly the solution, and frankly people that I see use the term "female" as a noun are not activists of any kind, but mostly younger men or at times women about someone they dislike.

Yes quite. And it's entirely unnecessary anyway as there is a perfectly good descriptor word which has worked for thousands upon thousands of years. No confusion necessary!

I hear women use the world Male all the time and its never perceived as demeaning.

Everything is offensive these days isn't it

The need to use the word female instead of women or girl really has been pushed due to male transitioner's and their allies claiming that the words 'woman' and 'girl' include them. They are now using the term 'female'. Some very prominent male transitioners declare that they are female.

This was predicted to happen. And it is happening as predicted. All those people who declare that they are happy to call male transitioners 'women' have unfortunately contributed to this.

Yes, it's like nails on a chalkboard.

Mostly used by incels, mra, and other inept men types.

Nonsense. No-one has to do anything. It's often a MRA/incel put down. These are the enemy, not trans women. But they're very keen to make you think otherwise.

It absolutely isn't nonsense.

You are an apologist and an enabler.

I use it here on MN because you cannot use the word man or men in a discussion about transitioned males. That is how seriously authoritarian it has become.

Use common English that refers to the sex of a person and your post is deleted. It is as simple as that.

"No-one has to do anything. It's often a MRA/incel put down. These are the enemy, not trans women. But they're very keen to make you think otherwise."

And this is straight out gaslighting.

Yes. it is forced, pronoun usage is forced and women are forced to call males 'women' through the coercive pressures at work, in social situations and in their on-line activity.

No one describes transitioned males as 'the enemy', that is simply an absolutist tactic that misrepresents the truth.

"But they're very keen to make you think otherwise."

Yeah.... strange how people have and still are taking their employers to tribunal about losing their jobs through misgendering. How bizarre to post this when there are so many examples of threats being made by people with trans identities on social media to any person who doesn't use the correct terminology?

or is this poster declaring that the people making those threats are 'MRAs and incels' and not also trans? Isn't that transphobic to say someone who has a declared trans identity is not trans? However, there is a large cross over between MRA and incels and males with trans identities. Check out the growing numbers of Transmaxxers for a start.

So, no. It is not 'nonsense'. Nonsense would be the poster who denies what is right there and easy to find.

I do not mind being described as female at all.

I do not like being referred to as a female at all.

The reason for this is I associate the practice of women being referred to as females with groups who promote or hold misogynistic views. The extreme end of the spectrum of this is the incel term "femoid".

FWIW I find it much more common among straight manosphere men who hate trans people as much as women. It far predates any "gender ideology" discussions.

Hadn't read the comments before posting but I agree with this.

The Equality Act does differentiate between sex and gender and clearly does permit the exclusion of trans gender people, even those with a GRC, if doing so is seen as having, what is the term, legitimate means.

As the guidance makes clear, it is entirely acceptable for providers of single-sex services to take account of the biological sex of their service users. Where it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, the Equality Act 2010 is clear that service providers can exclude, modify or limit access for transgender people, even where they have a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC). This includes where a service provider has concerns that the presence of individuals who are biologically male could prevent them from meeting their aims, such as in the example below, included in the guidance:
“A group counselling session is provided for female victims of sexual assault. The organisers do not allow trans women to attend as they judge that the clients who attend the group session are likely to be traumatised by the presence of a person who is biologically male.”

Then you are also an apologist and an enabler.

Can't help thinking some folk (females?) have too much time to THINK!! ;-)

Lol alright mate. If calling out that the majority of misogyny comes from straight men makes me an apologist, you carry right on thinking that 🖕

It's sex not gender and I'm happy to be referred to as an Adult Human Female as that's what I am

That is not the point of the comment you agreed with.

You can attempt to gaslight all you like.

Please do not tag me any further, I have literally no interest in your twisted takes.

I have no issue with being called female personally.

I also refer to men as males

Each to their own

I’m not tagging you. This is a quote. No notification, no obligation on you to read or respond.

You do not have to engage with me any further.

However I will call it exactly what it is.

Apologist and enabling.

If that makes you angry you are quite free to ignore it. You make statements here, on this extremely pressing and urgent issue for women, girls and young people of both sexes, I will challenge them as I see fit and make my opinion known. That is fair.

I'm fairly sure this has nothing at all to do with trans people and everything to do with incel / "nice guy" behaviour.