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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this book should not be sold to young girls?

519 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 09/02/2023 09:25

twitter.com/Waterstones/status/1623584986740953091?s=20&t=WU0D0fzc6ClGJC5R-gJnuw

Waterstones tweeted celebrating a book that is about transing girls. Here is one of the illustrations from the book.

AIBU to think that this is directly promoting self harm to young vulnerable girls?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
littlbrowndog · 09/02/2023 16:00

ResisterRex · 09/02/2023 15:25

A 14 year old is a child. Not an "older teen" Hmm

As I said before, what's promoted is not harmless. Far from it:

"How little patients understood what they were getting into was illustrated by a call we received at the center in 2020 from a 17-year-old biological female patient who was on testosterone. She said she was bleeding from the vagina. In less than an hour she had soaked through an extra heavy pad, her jeans, and a towel she had wrapped around her waist. The nurse at the center told her to go to the emergency room right away.

We found out later this girl had had intercourse, and because testosterone thins the vaginal tissues, her vaginal canal had ripped open. She had to be sedated and given surgery to repair the damage. She wasn’t the only vaginal laceration case we heard about."

www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It is wrong to lie about medicating children. It is wrong to glamorise such medication.

That is a shocking read resister rex
all the children that are being given drugs and surgery. And for what ?

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:01

I didn't think we banned books on this country. Teenagers can buy and read any number of books their parents disagree with, Flowers in the Attic and Lolita were two I can remember reading at 13, strangely didn't encourage me to empathise with paedophiles or incestuous siblings, or to put arsenic on the donuts ( apologies for spoilers)

Zodfa · 09/02/2023 16:11

A 12-year-old isn't going to be put off reading a book because it says "14+" in size 10 font somewhere on the back cover. If anything that's going to make them more likely to read it!

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 09/02/2023 16:30

Zodfa · 09/02/2023 16:11

A 12-year-old isn't going to be put off reading a book because it says "14+" in size 10 font somewhere on the back cover. If anything that's going to make them more likely to read it!

So what's your solution, then?
Ban books you don't agree with just because someone younger than the target audience could pick it up?

Vargas · 09/02/2023 16:31

Am I just a terrible cynic to think that Waterstones shortlisted this book on purpose to manufacture a bit of outrage? In a sort of 'all publicity is good publicity' kind of way?

I really hope they lose sales over this. I certainly won't be buying from them again.

Vargas · 09/02/2023 16:33

I don't recall anyone putting Lolita or Flowers in the attic forward for a children's book prize though...

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:34

Vargas · 09/02/2023 16:33

I don't recall anyone putting Lolita or Flowers in the attic forward for a children's book prize though...

Lolita was on my English literature uni list- I was 17...

Habreathmint · 09/02/2023 16:35

It shouldn't exist. Revolting.

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 16:36

So @Onnabugeisha are you saying that a male with a trans identity who wants to sleep with a lesbian is a straight male or a lesbian? Because according to you, transition does not change orientation, and as humans cannot change sex, a male with a trans identity dating women would be a straight male, and a female with a trans identity dating males would be a straight female. Gotcha.

Onnabugeisha · 09/02/2023 16:44

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 16:36

So @Onnabugeisha are you saying that a male with a trans identity who wants to sleep with a lesbian is a straight male or a lesbian? Because according to you, transition does not change orientation, and as humans cannot change sex, a male with a trans identity dating women would be a straight male, and a female with a trans identity dating males would be a straight female. Gotcha.

You need to specify which trans identities you are referring to for me to answer some of your questions.

But, yes, conversion therapy is all about changing who you are sexually attracted to. Coming out as trans doesn’t change who you are sexually attracted to, so it cannot be conversion therapy. All it might do is change your label.

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 16:50

Exactly. So those males with a trans identity who claim to be lesbians because they are dating women (ie transwomen dating females ), Are straight males according to you. And a female with a trans identity (transman) who dates males is a straight man. Now I get you.

AlisonDonut · 09/02/2023 16:56

TeaKlaxon · 09/02/2023 15:26

The mask is slipping here guys.

Here is an author that those who oppose trans rights consider to be a woman.

And here we have a bunch of posters claiming that that 'woman' shouldn't be allowed to write about 'her' experiences and feelings as a teenager in a book aimed at teenagers.

And yet in the same breath, they'll claim to support women's voices. All a bit hypocritical, isn't it?

I wouldn't support any woman who glamourises things that cause teens harm.

It isn't a mask.

Just because someone is a female doesn't make them immediately 'safe' and exempt from criticism.

Same as if a female published a book aimed at teens about how sex work is great and affirming. No. Not happy about that either.

It isn't difficult.

FoxByMyBin · 09/02/2023 16:59

Fuck Waterstones for celebrating this book, grim and grimmer.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/02/2023 17:25

This is an adult with an agenda who has targeted teenagers. There are too many self interested adults determined to sell transitioning as a positive choice to them.
Parents need to be aware of people who target children for their own financial or self serving interests. They don't have their interests at heart - if they did, they'd never minimise the effect of puberty blockers, sell double mastectomies as positive choices and minimise the impact of life long infertility and limited relationship choices for children too young to appreciate what they're giving up.

It's irresponsible to pretend this is acceptable for children and young people.

nopuppiesallowed · 09/02/2023 18:40

CTRALTDEL · 09/02/2023 15:28

‘encourage Waterstones to revise their attitude to stocking it on their bookshelves ...’

Go for it. I don’t suppose anyone at Waterstones feels that books should be banned anymore than most people do.

But before you go off on a rant you,
and anyone else planning on jumping on the outraged bandwagon, should read the book first. Rather than just read something out of context in SM and decide that’s enough to be petitioning companies to stop selling something.
personally, I’m sickened by the amount of books in the crime section that contain graphic descriptions of women being abused. So I don’t read or buy them. Much
as I would like to not have the there at all, that’s not how it works.

Thing is, I'm an adult with an adult brain. I choose not to read books filled with graphic descriptions of violence towards women. 14 year olds have brains which are still developing. They don't have the same ability to make wise decisions as to what may have a detrimental effect on them - hence we try to keep porn away from them. And younger children will always try to get hold of books aimed at older kids. I bet most of us did. And yes - I don't feel I need to read the whole of Mein Kamf to decide it's grim. So I'll make a decision on this book on that one, single, appalling page.

MorganKitten · 09/02/2023 18:48

Squiblet · 09/02/2023 11:43

Wow that's really sad and I agree, it goes way, way too far.

To the PP who mentioned Judy Blume - I read a TON of Judy Blume growing up, practically everything she wrote, and although there was plenty of anxiety and confusion about adolescence and the female body, there was never anything like the level of self-hatred and self-revulsion expressed here.

Judy Blume’s books gave me a very warped view on a few things including sex after reading Forever.

ReunitedThorns · 09/02/2023 19:11

In the Waterstones award for picture books for younger children is a book about a male frog who wants to be a princess.

It seems that all of their categories have got books promoting that children should get sex changes.

The publishing industry isn't about reflecting diverse opinion, it is now about indoctrination.

EpicChaos · 09/02/2023 19:11

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:01

I didn't think we banned books on this country. Teenagers can buy and read any number of books their parents disagree with, Flowers in the Attic and Lolita were two I can remember reading at 13, strangely didn't encourage me to empathise with paedophiles or incestuous siblings, or to put arsenic on the donuts ( apologies for spoilers)

We've been censoring/banning books, including childrens books, on racial grounds, ( maybe other grounds too? ) in this country since the 1960's/1970's that I know of, probably a lot longer than that but that's books that i'm personally aware of. ( Lady Chatterley's Lover survived in the end
though, lol. )
So banning can be done if there is the political will to do it, as was the case with books containing racial, or perceived racial references, no matter how innocently intended. The trouble with the current fashion/fad of transgenderism is that, imo, political will is wrongly happy to push this ideology, hence books like the one being discussed in this thread not only being published but being pushed and celebrated.

Maybe we just don't realise how many books have been banned/censored, unless like with the books i'm aware of, they were removed from shelves/titles rewritten. Maybe a lot just don't get as far as being sent any further than the literary agent because they don't fit within the rules and we are therefore unaware of their existence.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 09/02/2023 20:30

MorganKitten · 09/02/2023 18:48

Judy Blume’s books gave me a very warped view on a few things including sex after reading Forever.

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Forever!! I remember reading that when I was about 11 or 12 like this 😳😁
Still snigger at the name Ralph to this day 😂

IneedanewTV · 09/02/2023 20:52

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:34

Lolita was on my English literature uni list- I was 17...

Show quote history

Uni and being 17 is very different to a 14 year old.

VestaTilley · 09/02/2023 21:21

YANBU. The woman hatred and normalization of self harm to her body is just awful.

PriOn1 · 09/02/2023 21:26

Onnabugeisha · 09/02/2023 16:44

You need to specify which trans identities you are referring to for me to answer some of your questions.

But, yes, conversion therapy is all about changing who you are sexually attracted to. Coming out as trans doesn’t change who you are sexually attracted to, so it cannot be conversion therapy. All it might do is change your label.

Show quote history

There are strenuous efforts currently being made by lobbyists to include “attempting to change gender identity” in laws banning conversion therapy.

So therapists recommending watchful waiting, rather than affirmation of gender identity might find themselves accused of conversion therapy.

PriOn1 · 09/02/2023 21:34

And the publishing industry is very vocally in favour of transactivism, in particular the young adult sector. A friend who works for a company that creates children’s books told me a couple of years ago that her bosses were desperately hunting for a trans author.

And the previous poster who said that nobody in Waterstones would believe in censorship of books should know that many books by women that are critical of transgenderism in its current form, are often kept hidden by Waterstones staff in some stores, even when those books are high on the bestseller lists at the time.

SunscreenCentral · 09/02/2023 21:39

Taken out of context.

This book could be a life-saver in the right hands. People are not identical. Especially young teens.

NowDoYouBelieveMe · 09/02/2023 21:49

Lockheart · 09/02/2023 15:34

Don't forget the wonderfully pleasant post on the previous page talking about how fat and ugly and old-looking they are, how undateable they are, and how they must live with their mother.

Show quote history

Yes you can see right through people when they post things like this. Just sad little bullies.