Does anyone think it sounds likely my son has ASD?

[ThisMamaNeedsHelp]

My son is 3. (Just)

I am concerned he is showing signs of being on the ASD spectrum and would appreciate any advice/insight from anyone who has experience of this as to whether his behaviour sounds typical of a child presenting with ASD or can be explained by his age?

Fine around other kids. Says he wants to “go and see the children” when talking about toddler group etc. Likes to say hello and try and join in with chasing games etc with his older sister and her friends. Not at nursery yet (can’t afford it until we get the government hours) but whenever we go to toddler groups he is fine around other kids. Happy being close to them and doesn’t have an issue with people being in his space, although rather than actual meaningful play it is more parallel play than anything at the moment.

He is very overfamiliar with strangers. My daughter was always very friendly and sociable as a toddler too, liked to chat away in shops etc, but my son will literally launch himself onto people and repeatedly tap their leg to say hello.
at home beginning to do some imaginary play although limited - will play with a toy aeroplane, say it’s flying in the sky, but when I ask where it’s going he doesn’t know, so flying in the sky is as far as we get.
went through a stage of lining toys up which worried me but doesn’t seem to do that any more.
can and does imitate me.
can point with one finger. answers to his name although it used to be a real effort but does that fine now.
eye contact good. Smiles and laughs, very affectionate with us all at home.
very clever - can count, knows all shapes and colours etc
Language skills - hard for me to know if he is “behind” or not as I can only really compare to my daughter who spoke very well very early. Some 3yr olds I know speak a lot better than him, but I also know some 3-4yr olds who I can’t always understand what they’re saying. My son is usually intelligible when speaking but his actual conversation skills aren’t great. He can answer questions, make statements, sing songs, knows what everything around him is etc but there’s not much actual conversation.
extremely physical/hyperactive - runs and runs, climbs, finds it hard to sit down quietly when he is “supposed to” ie during toddler classes can’t sit and listen to instructions, he will be running around a bit manic while the other toddlers sit down when asked to.

I have asked the GP to refer him for an assessment and was told that they would do this but I am looking at a 2 year wait to be seen.

going out of my mind with worry. Any advice as to whether this sounds like ASD appreciated hugely.

@leithreas yes OH’s nephew is severely autistic and I have definitely considered OH to have autistic tendencies (he says this himself)

But having autistic traits is not being autistic. Being autistic is to do with your brain. It’s like being pregnant; you either are or you aren’t.

This is what todays society has done to kids/parents.

This modern obsession with mental health and labels and over diagnosing has led you to worry that this perfectly normal 3 year old behaviour is something that should be diagnosed or isn't right.

Every child is different. Small boys are different from small girls so comparing him to your daughter is not useful.

He sounds like a confident, lively little chap and you should be so proud of him!

Best of luck to you

Indeed. My cat has very obvious autistic traits but he definitely wouldn't meet the threshold for diagnsis.

Someone upthread said I sound like I have anxiety issues and yes I would definitely describe myself as highly anxious. I do have a feeling about DS. All those telling me to enjoy him, I love him with all my heart. I can see how he is different to other children though. He is so much more manic.
And he is lining up toys as we speak.

My 4 year old boy is Autistic. He is also overfamiliar with strangers, when we first met his Paediatrician he ran in and jumped on her knee and hugged her. BUT he also never made eye contact with her, flapped his hands a lot and repeated (echolalia) nearly everything she said word for word and in her accent which he never would have heard before.
Im not going to tell you your boy is NOT autistic because he might be. And i really put a lot of stock in mothers intuition; if you think it there is probably something to it.. But all the things youve described can also be completely neurotypical too. If I was you id watch and wait; keep a daily diary. When he goes to nursery you will have so much more information.
Also, stop right now with the drama about Autism. Its not cancer. His life will be absolutely fine if he has parents/family who accept him for who he is, dont try and therapy away the Autism and love him uncinditionally. If you believe its a bad rhing, so will he.

Did the GP give any other reason apart from him being overfamiliar? If not it is strange he was willing to reffer him. Surely he must have had other concerns? Also the fact others in your life aren't surprised has stood out to me too. Posters on a forum can't really know either way.

There are a couple of things you mention (number obsession and echollialia) that are similar to my DC who will get an ASD diagnosis. However it sounds like your little boy has better social skills than mine and has much more developed speech.

I totally get the worrying but ultimately it doesn't change anything. You DC is still who he is and wether he is or isn't he is still going to be him and you have to parent the children you have. Asd isn't always something to be heartbroken over either as a couple others on this thread have already pointed out. If you still want to go ahead with the assessment stay on the waiting list and enjoy spending time with your wee one. Try not to overthink every behavior. Easier said than done i know but it sounds like he has lots of positives.

NT children line up their toys too.

In what way do you think it would be beneficial to get a diagnosis? Considering the wait list can be up to 4 years, depending on your local area, unless you can go private of course.

My biggest regret is having my son diagnosed. It's meant that he's not eligible to do the one job he has always wanted to do, and I now face having to reduce his dreams to rubble because I did what I thought I should do. But in reality, we have gained nothing from knowing officially, but it will now be a detriment to him.

@TheSnowyOwl There is a reason it is called a spectrum. It is not like being pregnant or not. People can have some autistic traits but might not be considered on the spectrum or maybe at the the very mild end of the spectrum. But having autistic traits is being autistic and people have those traits because of the way their brain is structured. The autism spectrum goes from people that you would never even suspect on first acquaintance were autistic being respected professionals to people who can never live an unsupported life.

It’s impossible to say he’s not autistic but as someone who’s worked with autistic preschoolers in a specialist capacity for my entire career, none of what you say screams autism at all.

Lining up toys is a normal, healthy behaviour. It's to do with learning to count. My HV was concerned when I said I hadn't noticed dd doing it. It's when that's the only way they play that it becomes a worry.

Few 3 year olds have a functional sense of danger. This usually develops around age 5 but obvs some kids are later without it indicating a problem.

Same here - 8 years I badgered the specialists for a diagnosis but being diagnosed really hadn’t helped him in the slightest other than him having a ‘label’ which he hates. If I could go back in time I would have just let him be

Oh and GPs know little about autism, which is why they're not allowed to diagnose it. Don't take the GP referring you as a clear indicator he will get a diagnosis, it just means he's doing his job. Hopefully an assessment will put your mind at rest.

He is very young and it is hard to untangle normal toddler behaviour with possible autism
As I'm sure you know autism is a spectrum and every autistic child is different.
Being over familiar with strangers can be a flag.
Not being able to sit quietly , for example at story time, is another, although perhaps more adhd?
Transition from one activity to another can be hard for all toddlers but is an ASC trait but he may well outgrow this.
My daughters have ASC and enjoy being with friends, usually have eye contact etc
So it's really hard to tell at this stage.
I would try not to worry, enjoy your son and perhaps keep a watchful eye.
I would just say ime schools and nurseries dont always pick up autism. Particularly if the child- for want of a better term is " high functioning " and masks well.
So I would also say trust your instincts.
I suppressed mine as I thought nursery or school would raise concerns, they didn't. one DD diagnosed at 14 after things dramatically fell apart at school from age of 11, another DD not diagnosed until 18.
There were signs but they coped so if I'm honest I brushed them off and didn't fully recognise them for what they were.
But at only just 3 I think perhaps you need to wait and watch. Trying to get a diagnosis on the NHS is hard, there are a lot of hoops to jump through even to be accepted onto a ( very long) waiting list

OP I have an autistic son and work in autism diagnosis.

You cannot discount the impact of covid on attention and socialisation. As a recent 3 year old he will have been newborn around the time covid started and will have therefore missed out on early opportunities to mix with peers during his first two years. He will also have missed out on mixing with adults socially - extended family, friends with similar aged kids on days out, etc - and this could be a plausible reason why he hasn't developed a good understanding of strangers vs family; compared to pre-covid toddlers he's had far less experience with "friendly strangers" to know how to behave. There has been a 40 percent increase nationally in referrals for ?autism post covid, and a large subgroup are children whose social understanding and language development, and "soft skills" around negotiation, compromise, resilience, and play, are delayed. But not necessarily because they are actually autistic, but perhaps because their development has been impacted by covid restrictions.

Wrt echolalia - my son had this; he would repeat complex phrases from nursery out of context at home - but his spontaneous speech was less developed. While he would say things like "Come away, Maisie, that's Barnaby's dinner" (changed the names but one of his phrases) and "I'm not laughing, Majorie Smith", a propos of nothing, his "real speech" was more "Daddy shoe, oh dear". He also had pronoun reversal (if you said "do you want a biscuit?" He would say "you want a biscuit" and later come up and say "you want a biscuit" to me, meaning 'i want a biscuit').
He also had an encyclopedic knowledge of Thomas the Tank Engine.

Lining up toys is not a concern - it's a play schema. There are several of these such as casting, exploring. This is the organizing schema. It's only a worry if it completely dominates play or if the child becomes extremely distressed if you try to join or alter the play, or move the items.

Your son may be autistic or he may not, but he is definitely a lockdown baby and that has emphatically definitely impacted young children's development. Give him time in nursery before you worry unduly. And as the parent of an autistic now young adult, he is kind and loyal and has never knowingly hurt anyone and he is in no way a tragedy or a burden. He is who he is, and that's fine.

Toddlers with asd are also normal

@1stTimeMama @ElizaDoolittle77 I'm really sorry to hear your experiences.

If it helps at all, my DH wasn't diagnosed until his 20s after a complete breakdown and suicide attempt, and he said he wished he'd been diagnosed earlier.

i cant hurt to go on the waiting list
his nursery will hopefully have experience but if you feel this way, and he is your second child, go for it

And btw the "spectrum" isn't a linear spectrum from mild to severely autistic. That's not how he works. It's more like a kaleidoscope of individual features that can cause lesser or greater impact on a person depending upon their context and age.

nothing you have written jumps out as being particularly likely to be signs of asd

he could still be on the spectrum. Every child presents differently and we are only getting a brief snapshot here.

what I will say is that you don’t need to worry. If your son is not NT, he likely does not have the kind of presentation that is going to massively impair his life. You see him basically functioning in society right own. If he does have asd, he may face certain challenges, but plenty of people face challenges. Asd is a spectrum. For some it means lifelong care, but for others it is just a part of who they are. Some of us even see it as more of a blessing than a curse, which is a huge privilege to have the type of asd that gets you good jobs and a nice life, but that path does exist.

I have a 3 year old who I don't think is autistic and an 11yo who is. I don't actually think it is typical for a 3yo not to ever sit down at all. Mine will engage in an activity for at least 15 minutes and I think 5-20 minutes is developmentally typical. Combined with the other factors I think it's definitely worth getting an assessment if the GP was happy to refer you.

Nothing sounds particularly out of range for a 3 year old's behaviour. That list at 6 would be a different matter.

DS was referred at 7 and diagnosed at 9. At 3, it was only really a speech delay that finally slipped enough for intervention and incredibly intense, prolonged "tantrums" that persisted for many more years that were obvious traits. Things like strong adverse reactions to clothing just blended in as normal.

The reality is that diagnosis of "high functioning" children can result in a little help from educational settings, but not much. The game changer stage for us was recognising the needs in the first place and tweaking parenting and expectations to adapt. I read a lot to DS but realised that a lot of our lovely picture books had very flowery language, so bought some Peter and Jane for the very simple sentence construction. That helped DS develop his language from isolated words to make a point into a more gramatical language, and supported the SALT interventions that were then implemented at nursery.

@ Curlymam - sorry to hear this xx

I'm sorry, to me this is completely normal toddler behaviour. I am autistic myself, have 3 diagnosed children and 7 diagnosed relatives.

The one thing that makes me say not autistic is the eye contact.

I have belonged to many support groups, met hundreds of autistic people, both children and adults. And the one thing I can definitely say about all of them, is not a single one had decent eye contact.

Please don't worry. Whatever the outcome, with the correct support he can move on to have a very satisfying and fulfilling life. My three children are now training to be a doctor, lawyer and engineer. It's not all doom and gloom.

My two were diagnosed by three but nothing you write would strike me as terribly concerning tbh. It's very typically three year old behaviour. I remember my oldest (NT) had a spell of referring to every man as Daddy and being over familiar. I'm surprised that the GP is concerned about ASD purely because you child is lively and over familliar tbh as it's something I'd have found more in my NT dc than those with ASD.
My dgs is three and a half now and six months ago he'd come out with random phrases and echoing what he'd heard which I think it was just him practising speech and filling the silence when he thought something needed saying. Six months on his language has just exploded both in terms of vocabulary and communication and the random phrases and echoing has just disappeared because he now has the skills he needs.
Try not to worry, he's still very young and in six months he could be very different to how he is currently.