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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think drunk teen shouldn't be in paeds A&E?

397 replies

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 10:35

NC for this in case picked up by the likes the of Daily Fail etc.

Took DD to paeds A&E last night due to concerns about dehydration after 5 days of gastro bug and decreasing tolerance for fluids and no wet nappy for 12 hours. Luckily she is OK and we were allowed home after some anti sickness meant she could tolerate water, but the place was full of really sick babies and toddlers. Dr said 4 cases of D&V/dehydration, plus a query sepsis child, croup etc.

I heard someone approach the nurses station and say they were bringing a drunk 15 year old and his parents round from adult A&E, no particular reason given, so assume this was purely based on his age. He did say dad was struggling to manage said drunk teen.

At this point I knew we were going home, so no real skin in the game, but I thought to myself that if the teen was that drunk, was paeds A&E really the place to bring him when he would have received presumably the same medical care in adult A&E?

As I say, no big deal to me as we were leaving, but I'm not sure I'd have been happy with a drunk/loud/aggressive/silly teen in the cubicle next to us. More so for the other parents and children who were really very very poorly and had clearly been there a long time, were very tired, waiting for a bed on the ward etc.

So - aibu to think drunk teen probably should have stayed in adult A&E and that it's not really desirable for a 15 year old who's had a few too many to be in the same (very small) department as lots of really unwell younger children?

OP posts:
MotherOfHouseplants · 05/02/2023 21:46

ancientgran · 05/02/2023 21:37

Thank you. I couldn't understand why everyone was focused on you not thinking a 15 year old should be there when it seemed clear to me that it was the drunkenness that was the issue.

Show quote history

There are other clinical reasons why a fifteen year old might present with aggression or violence. Should a fifteen year old
presenting at A&E with psychiatric symptoms (because that is where they would have to go in the absence of proper CAHMS services) be refused care and sent to adult A&E before being admitted to an adult psych ward?

AutumnColours5887447 · 05/02/2023 21:47

What on earth is wrong with a poorly child being treated for being drunk? It’s no different than being treated for an overdose which is a frequent occurrence. You can have similar reactions to other things:- meds, anxiety…

ancientgran · 05/02/2023 21:49

MotherOfHouseplants · 05/02/2023 21:46

There are other clinical reasons why a fifteen year old might present with aggression or violence. Should a fifteen year old
presenting at A&E with psychiatric symptoms (because that is where they would have to go in the absence of proper CAHMS services) be refused care and sent to adult A&E before being admitted to an adult psych ward?

Show quote history

Maybe actually read my posts. I haven't said he shouldn't be there, haven't said he shouldn't be treated there. What I have said is people have misunderstood the OP. Hope that helps.

AutumnColours5887447 · 05/02/2023 21:50

ED patients can get violent and need restraining. Security would be more likely to be needed for that than being extremely drunk which would probably just involve vomiting, talking rubbish and being passed out in extreme cases.

Rewis · 05/02/2023 21:51

I think there was a thread here a few months ago where the op (parent?) Was concerned cause their 16yo was placed at an adult ward.

MotherOfHouseplants · 05/02/2023 21:51

I read them, @ancientgran, and see nothing to make my question irrelevant. Feel free not
to answer me.

JustCakeInDrag · 05/02/2023 21:55

I have to say we consider ourselves very lucky to have more than one paediatric A&E within driving distance and are quite happy to find the odd teenager there. Friends elsewhere in the country don’t have the option and have to take their sick children to a general A&E.

blubberyboo · 05/02/2023 22:18

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 10:41

Well yes obviously @Squamata but none of the Dr's or nurses in paeds were very happy about it and said it sounded more like a job for adults 😬

I don’t think any doctor or nurse is happy at being presented with a drunk patient but he’s still a child and it’s their job to care for him.

he may well have been a lot sicker than many of the kids there… notably your own was going home.

you don’t know how he got drunk in the first place. Couldve been acting the lout or he might have been spiked or plyed with drink by someone grooming him.

he might have had an injury while drunk

the alcohol likely will have affected him worse than an adult with more tolerance.

maybe he had MH or vulnerability needs that meant her couldn’t be cared for with adults.

maybe the male adult ward was already a volatile place with loud violent patients.

at the end of the day it was none of your business why another child patient was in the children’s ward

YABU

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 05/02/2023 23:02

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 10:49

Sorry @MirabelMax it wasn't intentional. I am knackered this morning, we didn't get in until 3am 😴

Hope your baby is much better op- it must have been frightening and exhausting!

For those sufferings you are not being unreasonable... but yes a 15 year old child should be in paediatric care.

It is an objective matter and about different response to medication and different symptoms for the same condition. (Paediatricians have special skills and learning- they don't just give mini versions of adult treatment. )

A drunk child would be irritating to any A&E dept of course but if they need treatment they need the right treatment. (You will be amazed at how young your baby seems when 15. I still laugh at the term '18 year old man')

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 05/02/2023 23:16

I think it's great that's where he was. There was no children's A&E when I was 11 and needed stitches in my leg and at 13 when I had my tonsils out I was on an adult ward and hated it. I'm glad things have moved on.

Cuppasoupmonster · 05/02/2023 23:18

YANBU, actually. For me part of the benefit of a kids A&E is they don’t have to be further distressed by the scary drunk/drug addled/dementia adults around them, this boy at 15 isn’t quite an adult but it doesn’t seem he was a good fit for the children’s department in that respect.

PleaseCleanTheWholeToilet · 05/02/2023 23:19

Children of 17 are still in children’s A&E and on Childrens wards
Because they are children

A child who is 18 next week would be in childs a&e because thats what they are, No matter what the ‘problem is with them’
The organs / meds is still based on a ‘child’

Onnabugeisha · 05/02/2023 23:27

Us3r21422 · 05/02/2023 10:41

Well yes obviously @Squamata but none of the Dr's or nurses in paeds were very happy about it and said it sounded more like a job for adults 😬

Well, it’s not their call either is it? It’s the Consultant in charge of the entire A&E Department that makes the decision.

AutumnColours5887447 · 06/02/2023 05:53

Um “not a good fit”. He was an ill child needing medical treatment, that is a good fit and meets the criteria. Plenty of teens and even children will be scary, mentally ill, distressed and even drunk and drug addled when ill. I think some really have rose tinted glasses as regards paediatric wards.

Rainbowsparkles29 · 06/02/2023 06:34

I just want to say as well OP that if you really did overhear the nurses saying these things then please raise this with the department as it's totally unacceptable. Don't even get into the debate of where the child is seen. Just explain that you're very dissappointed that the nurses were overheard being derogatory about the child and revealing what their medical complaint is. This is both a breach of confidentiality and daft as it might have stirred up trouble and put ideas into other parent's head as it clearly has done in your case.

PortiasBiscuit · 06/02/2023 06:43

Having had a drunk 15yo taken to A&E by ambulance on the WORST night of my life, I would say that paediatrics is exactly where she belonged.
I would also say that I took her there when she was a baby too, the same line of cubicles just over a dozen years earlier.
Babies grow older and we all do silly things. Best not to judge really, because you will be very glad of this service if it ever happens to you.

Rollin · 06/02/2023 10:05

@Us3r21422 Don't know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn't be happy leaving my 15 year old over night on a men's ward.

Whiskeypowers · 06/02/2023 10:36

Rainbowsparkles29 · 06/02/2023 06:34

I just want to say as well OP that if you really did overhear the nurses saying these things then please raise this with the department as it's totally unacceptable. Don't even get into the debate of where the child is seen. Just explain that you're very dissappointed that the nurses were overheard being derogatory about the child and revealing what their medical complaint is. This is both a breach of confidentiality and daft as it might have stirred up trouble and put ideas into other parent's head as it clearly has done in your case.

Completely agree

ThreeblackCats · 06/02/2023 10:47

Tell me you know nothing about medicine without saying “I have no idea how children should be treated whilst in hospital”

At 15 he/she is clearly a child, at 15 their medical requirements are still very different to an adults. You are being a judgemental cow op, hoik those judgey knickers up as high as you can. Goady thread to say the least.

Zooeyzo · 06/02/2023 11:33

An adult ward would be totally unsuitable for a 15 year old. I don't believe the nurses would say anything around you.

Orangebadger · 06/02/2023 11:51

As an A&E clinician I am more concerned by the extent of your knowledge about other patients. The breach of confidentiality in your original post is what concerns me the most.

As for an intoxicated15 yr old in paeds A&E. totally appropriate as many others here have already pointed out. But in truth not many of us relish caring for intoxicated patients of any age, so that may explain the staffs response. But they should be more professional about it, that goes without saying.

ancientgran · 06/02/2023 13:02

Orangebadger · 06/02/2023 11:51

As an A&E clinician I am more concerned by the extent of your knowledge about other patients. The breach of confidentiality in your original post is what concerns me the most.

As for an intoxicated15 yr old in paeds A&E. totally appropriate as many others here have already pointed out. But in truth not many of us relish caring for intoxicated patients of any age, so that may explain the staffs response. But they should be more professional about it, that goes without saying.

If you are in cubicles divided by curtains it is almost impossible to avoid knowing about the patients either side of you. I was in A&E once and the man in the next cubicle had exactly the same issue as I did and the doctor talked to me, explained the situation and possible courses of action and we agreed which way to go. He then went into the next cubicle and said, "Did you hear what I was saying?" The man said yes and doctor asked him which treatment choice he wanted and the man wanted the opposite to me. The doctor clearly knew that we could hear what was going on in each cubicle.

I think more privacy would be great but with the current set up in many A&Es it is hard to work out what can be done without spending money on it and I suppose with the way finances are it isn't a top priority.

ancientgran · 06/02/2023 13:03

PleaseCleanTheWholeToilet · 05/02/2023 23:19

Children of 17 are still in children’s A&E and on Childrens wards
Because they are children

A child who is 18 next week would be in childs a&e because thats what they are, No matter what the ‘problem is with them’
The organs / meds is still based on a ‘child’

I was on a maternity ward at 17, there was also a 15 year old in there. Maybe they should have had a paediatric maternity ward for us.

AnyOldThings · 06/02/2023 13:10

At 15 he is a child and should be seen in Paeds A&E. Those poor parents are gonna be as worried sick about him as you are about your child. And now we have you judging them and taking an opinion on a situation you barely know the surface of. There but for the grace and all that. It didn’t impact your child’s care and at 15 he’s a child needing help.

10HailMarys · 06/02/2023 14:24

I think hospitals are extremely busy and the staff need to put a drunk teenager wherever there happens to be a suitable space. The decision is based on clinical need and availability of beds/staff, not about whether you feel a child with alcohol poisoning deserves the same level of care as a child with a virus. If you're disturbed by another patient's condition, that's unfortunate but it's also to be a expected in a hospital. Some patients will be noisy, agitated, throwing up, wetting themselves, covered in blood, crying etc, because that's the nature of A&E. The fact that the teenager's illness was caused by alcohol is neither here nor there.