to ask why people care about appearing 'normal'?

[thatsgotit]

Not a TAAT, thread is partly inspired by things I've read on here, but also by things I read elsewhere around the web and in real life.

I've never understood the preoccupation with whether one is 'normal' in contexts where it doesn't actually matter. Within the realms of whether one's health is normal, sure, or knowing whether another person is treating one in a reasonable way. Or to understand workplace norms. Or to get a sense of whether one's child is developing in the right way. Things that actually matter.

But caring about appearing normal? Why?

For example, caring about whether or not it's normal to:

• get up/go to bed by a certain time;
• adhere to conventions like drinking tea and coffee (I once heard someone call adults who don't drink them 'childish');
• make certain types of clothing choice/hair colour or get piercings/make certain types of body modification past a particular age;
• have/not have pubic hair;
• be in PJs at certain times of day;
• not answer the phone/door at all times;
• have a certain type of dating or sex life (provided no one is getting hurt or exploited;
• enjoy certain things just because everyone else does.

I mean, why do we even waste our time with this stuff? Before anyone accuses me of thinking I'm perfect because I don't tend to care whether I'm viewed as conventional or 'normal', I am far from perfect and I know it. I just think life's far too short to care about whether one appears 'normal' or not. Inevitably, whatever choices we make, some of them will appear normal to others, some won't.

Genuine question to those who care about seeming normal: why?

YABU: I care about appearing normal
YANBU: I don't care about appearing normal

Hmm. I care about some of this stuff and not others. For example, body hair. I hate having hairy legs/armpits. I just hate the way it looks. I know that’s because of cultural norms but it is what it is.

But generally I think it’s because humans are very judgemental for the most part - we are basically psychologically programmed to seek out others like us - and most people like to be liked, so they try to exist for the main within the societal norms.

YANBU.

The older I get the less I give a shit about what people think of me. It's great. And im one of those MN bastards who never answers the front door unless it's a delivery or an invited guest 🖕

Im also continuing to get tattooed into my 40s, and always disappoint MIL by wearing dungarees and docs instead of a nice ladylike frock.

And I hate tea! I love water though and people always think im daft for turning down a cup of tea and asking for a glass of water. Refusing tea seems to offend people for some reason.

I think a lot of the time people don't care that much, but just want to start a thread to chat about something.

But since there's an unusually high amount of MNetters with anxiety, I guess those people might be more invested in others opinions.

Refusing tea seems to offend people for some reason.

It does! I've never understood that!

Because we are social animals who live by social norms and most people want to be liked?

We would get on a lot better in society if folk cared less about appearences though

😆 When I read the title I was nodding my head and ran to read it.
I was suprised about the list, I’ve never thought drinking tea or going to sleep at certain time would have been the list.

I thought it would have been about the obsession to date/sex, getting married, getting a car - getting even bigger car, alcohol (you must at least drink wine for goodness sake), having kids, traveling to certain place that is popular at the moment, watching the new ’it’ show etc.😉

But still interested to know the psychology behind it all.

I really don't know unless people have issues

I have probably offended people I have no idea unless they tell me and I have dealt with rude people over the years but no I can't remember being offended

I am sick of people blaming society because they can't think for themselves

But generally I think it’s because humans are very judgemental for the most part - we are basically psychologically programmed to seek out others like us - and most people like to be liked, so they try to exist for the main within the societal norms.

This is it in a nutshell. You just have to read mumsnet to see the judgement that people pass. In your pjs at midday? Dirty, lazy, slovenly woman. People judge and some people don't like that. Especially for instance if you are poor and live in a council house, you already know the stigma that falls along with that so you don't want to be seen as dirty and lazy, when you know that's lots of people already think you are a lazy freeloader as it is.

Because we are social animals who live by social norms and most people want to be liked?

But presumably not many people would take a dislike to someone just because the way they do unimportant stuff isn't how society deems normal? I hope not, anyway.

There are a lot of isolated, socially-withdrawn posters on Mn, who struggle with friendships and routine human interactions. Frankly, I don’t think they have much opportunity to gauge what the rest of society does, and they’re often extremely anxious, so Mn is a risk-free anonymous way of figuring out how others behave in certain situations.

Yeah, in a way that's part of what drove my post. As well as the bigger things, people seem to use up so much mental energy worrying about far less relevant social norms. (As a non-drinker of tea and someone with a sleep disorder I can confirm that people definitely do judge these things, I've heard 'that's not normal' more times than I can count. 😬😄)

I often wonder that too reading some of the threads here and think it’s multi factorial.

Confidence being one issue, those with lack of self confidence are wary of owning their own beliefs maybe. I’m quite content in how I behave, can read social queues, am liberal enough that how others live and behave is no skin off my nose and am fairly confident so the opinions of others don’t particularly matter.

Another issue I think is for those that have had upbringings that left them without a fairly good grounding. So they have felt like they didn’t quite make the mark when younger and the fear of perpetuating that into adulthood. Especially if they were ostracized for things outside of their control eg clean clothes, appropriate appearance at school, not able to form friendships for whatever reason etc, so they look on here or elsewhere for what is perceived as “normal” to fit in socially.

Not sure, but they are my musings

An relationship side, there is a topic about op’s friend being asexual.
I couldn’t believe how horrible people were about it in the comments and also continued to misunderstand when other’s tries to explain what it is.

And this now just made me think that perhaps it’s also fear?
That (certain kind of peoplw at least) want everyone just toe in the line - do what we’re supposed to and this way they feel safe in the world.
When everything and everyone just runs along as they’re supposed to.

Also, imagine how difficult it had to be back in the day!
At keast we have a little bit more freedom in this regard.

I feel people who ask this kind of question, generally have never had to think about appearing normal.

I care about, not necessarily spearing 'normal' but I do care about fitting in different social situations. Regardless of what they say, to some extent, most people do care about being liked & fitting in, in some capacity. I have autism but wasn't diagnosed until my late 20's. I struggled to make lasting friendships when I was younger because I was incredibly shy, anxious and a bit 'odd'. I spent my childhood trying to appear as normal as the other kids, it didn't always work. It's not nice being told you're the odd one out and excluded from things. It then became fashionable to be 'quirky' when I was at college and met I like minded peers and didn't have to pretend anymore.

I think MN maybe offers a bit of a false picture - it's so big, the odds are always someone will pop up who is weirdly judgy about something random or has a very unusual bugbear. Plus I do think there are a lot of posters here who do seem to live quite sheltered lives and are easily horrified by anything. See all the posts about how disgusting it is to not wash your bed sheets daily or how weird it is to watch a Disney film as an adult because the poster has not watched anything other than Songs of Praise and Country File since they turned 35.

There’s a current thread from an OP who is aggrieved and puzzled that people she visits found it strange that she refused a drink and would only sip from a bottle of water she brings with her everywhere — it didn’t seem to occur to her that this, together with her other self-imposed habit of sitting on the edge of her chair because she thought it was rude to look ‘too comfy’, would make her hosts think she thought their house was dirty.

This is the kind of thing I mean — posters asking if something is ‘normal’ are often isolated and socially anxious, or sometimes neurodivergent and trying to figure out the ‘rules’.

Because I want to fit in I guess. I spent my childhood being exiled because I was a care kid and because my mum spent a LOT of time in the local psychiatric hospital. I felt isolated and bullied, kids are cruel when your mother does strange things (like directing traffic naked) because of horrific things that happened to her as a kid. No-one else had a grandfather that was a paedophile and a mum that was so mentally unwell. As I have got older lots of those things in your list no longer matter to me but for a long time I just wanted to be 'normal' and to fit in.

@thatsgotit

to someone just because the way they do unimportant stuff isn't how society deems normal

Have you been outside?

It's things like this that interest me - asexual/transexual/ is not a scientific construct, we are biological entities - governments can decide that someone can alter or change a genetic label you've been given, but it doesn't change your biological status.

It helps me parent my children and steer them away from utter nonsense which can ultimately harm them physically and emotionally.

You are (usually, unless you have a physical disorder) a man or a woman and you get to "decide" depending on your genetics and your brain chemistry which sex or none or both that you're attracted to.

Yanbu

Fair point wry smile

Because we are evolutionarily programmed to want to be part of the tribe.
Being part of the same set of beliefs, the same ‘normal’ is how we manage to survive as a cohesive and (reasonably) successful society that consists of more than 50 people.
Fitting in with the group is important in survival terms. The lone wolf dies while the pack survives.

Being part of a group used to be the only way we'd survive so I don't think it's a shallow thing at all.

Crossed posted with a much better poster!

Because belonging is one of the most fundamental human needs.

Because a lot of social 'norms' have held up society for years and years, and take time to change and evolve.

Because being 'individual' and 'different' and 'going your own way' is a very Western, capitalist ideal and for a lot of communities, putting the good of the community ahead of the good of the individual is key to their success.

Of course pyjamas don't matter in and of themselves, but the sentiment behind people's discomfort around people stepping out of 'the norm' is more gut-level than that.