Page 4 | School payment to mosque

mumyes · 2023-02-02T15:44:33+00:00

DS going on school trip to mosque. Mosque is a big one, very wealthy. Don't want to be too outing. But think v ornate, v wealthy, wealthy area etc. Parents being asked to contribute financially to trip, which includes a payment to the mosque. I have no issue with laying for bus etc, but I do have an issue paying the mosque! Ffs, it's a PR exercise for the mosque after all isn't it?! just do it, why charge and already strapped primary school? Miserable bastards. Charging a school to show them inside a mosque?! And I'd say this if it was a church or temple or Godess knows what! Do churches really charge?!

shard5 · 02/02/2023 19:46

You just sound really intolerant of all religions. It's fine that you don't believe but it's also unbelievable that you know all about 'these' places as you put it when you're not religious yourself.
Just ask for clarification or check the 'big wealthy' mosque out online.
It's great for your son that you'll let him go what with the narrow mindedness he must get at home.

takealettermsjones · 02/02/2023 19:56

They're learning about the faith. It's a key part of the faith to give to those less fortunate. Donations are used for the upkeep of buildings, yes, but also community outreach, charitable work, etc.

I'd bet that the mosque agreed to the trip and said to the school that they usually expect donations from visitors, and the school in turn agreed to ask parents to contribute.

NeedSomeSpace · 02/02/2023 20:11

Is it a charge though, or could it be a suggested donation which the school are including in their suggested donation for the trip?

Our primary school has a voluntary donation for the local church they use as a 'thank you' for them opening it up during a weekday and having the vicar and sometimes other parishoners available to talk to the children, show them things etc.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/02/2023 20:17

Why do your posts get banned for saying you think religion is a c u l t!?

You'll find HQ are very selective on this one, OP, with some religions treated as fair game for even the basest insults (often deemed "robust debate") and others not

Personally I believe all religion to be a private thing with absolutely no place in schools unless it's strictly objective (this religion believes this, this one believes that, etc.), but I accept this is probably a minority view
As a fact-finding thing I probably wouldn't mind DC going, but would want to know in advance what the content was going to be, who'd be delivering it and what the money would be paying for

Original poster

mumyes · 02/02/2023 20:48

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/02/2023 20:17

Why do your posts get banned for saying you think religion is a c u l t!?

You'll find HQ are very selective on this one, OP, with some religions treated as fair game for even the basest insults (often deemed "robust debate") and others not

Personally I believe all religion to be a private thing with absolutely no place in schools unless it's strictly objective (this religion believes this, this one believes that, etc.), but I accept this is probably a minority view
As a fact-finding thing I probably wouldn't mind DC going, but would want to know in advance what the content was going to be, who'd be delivering it and what the money would be paying for

Actually quite relieved /pleased to hear of your views on this! Wish more parents did what you do!

I want to ask all that too but worried I'll be flagged as a big pain in the arse.

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etsiketsi · 02/02/2023 21:15

I work in a setting (non religious) that has educational visits. It is an increasingly difficult income stream for us.

It is now hugely difficult to get schools to go on educational visits. Transport costs and staff cover costs are exorbitant in vanishing budgets.

The days of getting a coach to look around a local “thing” are long gone. Unless your location is offering absolutely nailed on curriculum outcomes at a value for money price, it’s difficult for schools to visit.

You haven’t mentioned what is being offered on the visit. Our delivery team are all former teachers (who come at a cost) who deliver these programmes in line with the curriculum along with resources (again costly) and ingredients for food prep events (again at a cost).

Could it be that this is what the mosque is doing?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/02/2023 22:26

I want to ask all that too but worried I'll be flagged as a big pain in the arse

I guess it depends on how you ask; if it's in a genuine spirit of enquiry I'd hope the response would be positive, but if they take the attitude "Who's this irritating woman asking stupid questions", the visit might be something you'd want to reconsider

If you'd permit a suggestion, I find "Could you perhaps tell me a bit more about what's involved in the day?" to be a useful opener ...

Original poster

mumyes · 02/02/2023 22:35

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/02/2023 22:26

I want to ask all that too but worried I'll be flagged as a big pain in the arse

I guess it depends on how you ask; if it's in a genuine spirit of enquiry I'd hope the response would be positive, but if they take the attitude "Who's this irritating woman asking stupid questions", the visit might be something you'd want to reconsider

If you'd permit a suggestion, I find "Could you perhaps tell me a bit more about what's involved in the day?" to be a useful opener ...

Good idea. Thanks

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Godlovesall26 · 02/02/2023 23:05

Most school trips aren’t free… transport, supervising staff.
And usually there’s tour guides on site, should they work for free ? Or is there a point in going just with teachers and just saying oh look at the pretty building ? And they usually offer snacks. £3 is hardly tons for the whole educational experience

Godlovesall26 · 02/02/2023 23:06

Godlovesall26 · 02/02/2023 23:05

Most school trips aren’t free… transport, supervising staff.
And usually there’s tour guides on site, should they work for free ? Or is there a point in going just with teachers and just saying oh look at the pretty building ? And they usually offer snacks. £3 is hardly tons for the whole educational experience

And they’d need a liability insurance for the kids

JudgeRudy · 02/02/2023 23:46

Dotjones · 02/02/2023 16:03

Sounds like a scam, I wouldn't be surprised if the money is being skimmed off somewhere. Not sure if it's someone connected with the school or not but there's no way you should be paying for something like this. If anything the mosque should be paying the costs of the school's transport because it's basically just a PR/advert for them,

@Dotjones
Sounds like a scam? Who on earth do you think os skimming of this money? Headmaster MrJones or the Iman? What an odd thing to suggest. Do you think the Arch Bishop is at it too? Or maybe Brenda who runs community allotment. 🤔
As for a PR exercise, in a way yes it is. To promote understanding and acceptance of different lifestyles. I think it's highly unlikely a Yr 6 is going to go home and come out of the closet as a wanna be Muslim. They're more likely to wanna listen to classmate Ali tell them about last Eid celebration and realise we are more alike than different.

JudgeRudy · 02/02/2023 23:57

RedToothBrush · 02/02/2023 16:18

And there you have the religious intolerance....

It's a cultural building that will have maintainence and insurance costs associated even with visits. I think it's reasonable for non worshipers doing sight seeing to make a donation.

Even if you aren't religious and are a devot atheist, then I think these trips are important in terms of social understanding. Plus money may well go to the local community who aren't well off. Having an impressive ostentatious building doesn't mean it is well off or will always be well off and be used by the well off. Good planning means saving for the buildings future in 50 - 100 years time.

Perhaps one of the questions your kid could ask is where the money the mosque raises from it's visits is spent. They might get an answer you don't expect.

If you really object that much, don't go.

But ultimately this is about your intolerance and not about the mosque.

DS is a confirmed atheist but does get that religion has its value and place in society for many. He doesn't impose his views on others... You don't have to be religious to do that.

Show quote history

Some good points. During Covid my small market towns Sikh community set up a meals on wheels service for the vulnerable who were isolating. This was free. Many people were shocked that they didn't just help 'their own'. Charity is an an mordant pillar of Islam and includes everyone.

JudgeRudy · 03/02/2023 00:02

WeightoftheWorld · 02/02/2023 16:33

I'm a Muslim, I've never heard of having to pay entry to a mosque before ever. And I oppose paying entry to any place of worship, I think it's wrong.

What if you turned up with 50 kids who wanted to just have a look around and possibly take back some handouts or workbooks, use the loos etc....all of them together. Imagine that happens every week, either coz your building is impressive or you're the only one for miles in a small market town. The small charge likely facilitates a better experience and is good value

JudgeRudy · 03/02/2023 00:06

mumyes · 02/02/2023 16:44

Wowzers!! Why do your posts get banned
for saying you think religion is a c u l t!?

Is that not just freedom of speech?!

I have no issue if others want to be religious, I just think they are brainwashing patriarchal nonsense!

@mumyes
I've just asked for an explanation of the difference on a JW post this evening. Ive also said I can't see a difference.

Rockbird · 03/02/2023 06:38

I'm glad he's going because he's clearly not going to learn tolerance and acceptance from you.

Original poster

mumyes · 03/02/2023 10:55

Rockbird · 03/02/2023 06:38

I'm glad he's going because he's clearly not going to learn tolerance and acceptance from you.

I'm all for tolerance & acceptance. Religions, meanwhile, don't have great form for that do they @Rockbird?!

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Original poster

mumyes · 03/02/2023 10:56

@JudgeRudy so weird. Can only imagine it's done v young inexperienced social media person who freaked out at my suggestion that religions are akin to c ults

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MaryMcCarthy · 03/02/2023 10:57

I've seen those collection plates in churches. Miserable Christian bastards!

Original poster

mumyes · 03/02/2023 10:58

MaryMcCarthy · 03/02/2023 10:57

I've seen those collection plates in churches. Miserable Christian bastards!

At least that's bloody optional!

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cantkeepawayforever · 03/02/2023 11:02

Long ago, my school had a speaker about cults, and a friend of mine, like you, asked about how they were different from the major world faiths (especially those that seek to convert others).

The answer they gave was ‘choice’. A member of a world faith has the choice whether to follow that faith. A cult seeks to actively deny that choice.

Needmorelego · 03/02/2023 11:07

@mumyes collection plates are usually part of a service.
If the school was visiting the church as part of RE then they wouldn't be going during a service. They would be going as paid vistors as part of an educational visit.

Original poster

mumyes · 03/02/2023 11:09

cantkeepawayforever · 03/02/2023 11:02

Long ago, my school had a speaker about cults, and a friend of mine, like you, asked about how they were different from the major world faiths (especially those that seek to convert others).

The answer they gave was ‘choice’. A member of a world faith has the choice whether to follow that faith. A cult seeks to actively deny that choice.

I think you'll find with many religions there's a shitload of heavy pressure / subtle brainwashing.

Choice is a sliding scale!

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cantkeepawayforever · 03/02/2023 11:11

So you think that paying for entrance to any religious building - church, synagogue, mosque, gudwara, temple - is unacceptable because of the risk of brainwashing??

Roundandroundwegogo · 03/02/2023 11:20

Churches do not charge for visits. I work in a CofE church, and we regularly have school groups visiting. We produce resources for a visit, make staff available to give a talk and answer questions, and give the children a snack and drink. Even cathedrals would not charge school groups. Entering a cathedral as a tourist is different, and there is often a charge.

PatriciaHolm · 03/02/2023 11:47

Roundandroundwegogo · 03/02/2023 11:20

Churches do not charge for visits. I work in a CofE church, and we regularly have school groups visiting. We produce resources for a visit, make staff available to give a talk and answer questions, and give the children a snack and drink. Even cathedrals would not charge school groups. Entering a cathedral as a tourist is different, and there is often a charge.

But that's simply not true.

As I posted earlier, for example, Norwich Cathedral charges for school visits, even self-guided.

cathedral.org.uk/learn/school-visits/

Leeds also charge, as well as Ely, and Canterbury for example. It's common to charge for school groups.