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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU/ pre school yesterday / son upset at being forgotten/ un noticed

57 replies

SeenYourArse · 02/02/2023 14:30

Ok so yesterday I collected my son (3.5 yrs started pre school in Sept) from pre school, which is nursery class at our local primary school. The kids sit behind a screen in a reading nook being read to whilst teacher stands at the exit door calling them over in turn as parents arrive, she shouted my DS and he didn’t pop up and come after a few calls, (I had been waiting in the collection queue about 3/4 mins) so the assistant stops reading and goes to see if he’s in the toilets as he isn’t in the group and comes back carrying him and he’s sobbing (he doesn't cry or let himself be picked up usually!) once in the car I get him to calm down and tell me that he was crying because he was in the toilet for a long time and was shouting for help to wipe his bottom but nobody came. The lady just pulled his pants up and carried him out to me without wiping him so he was a mess when I got home and checked him I had to stick him straight in the shower and bin his undies 😡 I’m so annoyed he’s so little for his age and it’s his first experience of being away from me and home.
I spoke to them this morning (he’s not in on a Thursday) and the teacher said “oh he hasn't met the other lady who was here yesterday before so might not have been confident enough to tell her he was going to the toilet”
AIBU to be upset and think they should know where all their charges are at all times and check if gone to the loo for more than a few mins if they need help?
He’s a sensitive soul and was quite upset it was a shock to see him crying he just doesn’t. There were only 9 children in the class 😳

OP posts:
Lacey247 · 02/02/2023 21:14

Tillow4ever · 02/02/2023 15:05

Do you have children?

Show quote history

My son is the same age and also at preschool. Preschool is different to a private nursery and children are encouraged to be much more independent. My sons preschool would expect the children to be wiping their own bottom. They won’t put suncream on for the children even

DemBonesDemBones · 02/02/2023 21:16

@BloomingXmas behave yourself.

DemBonesDemBones · 02/02/2023 21:17

@PAFMO Not anymore. They're not allowed to refuse children in nappies, either.

Kanaloa · 02/02/2023 21:21

It all sounds very melodramatic. Sobbing and wailing over it etc. It might be better if he needs a lot of help toileting to teach him to say ‘please can you help me wipe’ so that they know. He might have been coming out of the cubicle or similar and the teacher didn’t notice. Either way I’d mention so they know that he isn’t toileting independently and needs support, then coach him a bit on speaking up and telling someone he’s going beforehand rather than crying because he’s calling and nobody comes.

turrrniiipz · 02/02/2023 21:23

It's perfectly normal at 3.5 to still struggle with wiping.

And it's also perfectly normal that they might forget to tell an adult they need help, or not realise they need a poo until they are on the toilet.

It's upto the adult in charge to work out why child is upset and then whittle it down to being toilet related if they are on the loo for a while.

Just because some children are toilet trained and cleaning themselves fully at that age doesn't mean ALL children can.

We are talking about a tiny nursery age child here, not a teenager.

WandaWonder · 02/02/2023 21:24

It is not good he was upset and they should have known where he was, he could have escaped outside the centre (yes it has happened)

But he should know how to do the basics to care for himself at that age, yes I have a child and I have never felt my child has lied he has also only ever told half a story most of the time too

They cannot meet every single individual need every second of the day, and using 'he is sensitive' does not change that

We covered the basics with our son on what to do in most situations, they should not have left him in soiled underpants (I don't want to lose what I am typing so going to go back and check that so sorry if I am wrong on this point)

Thinkbiglittleone · 02/02/2023 21:24

I m not normally one to be saying that the nursery needs a chat with but this yes.

At 3.5 they are learning being in this sort of setting. Yes of course Tory should ask before going the loo or leaving the room, but also at this age the staff should be aware where the kids are.
OP a minute in the loo might feel like an hour to him so I would not think he was there too long but I would check.

But yes, no child should be left in their own poo.
If she went in to get him, it should have been, "oh you need to ask before coming to the toilet, let's get finishing up now mummy is outside waiting" And then either let them start to wipe or wipe for them. I would definitely raise this as an issue.

It would be slightly different had he child gone the toilet themselves and not wiped but for a teacher to be in their with them and not done so it not acceptable.

turrrniiipz · 02/02/2023 21:24

@PAFMO

That is discriminatory towards children who have additional needs and aren't toilet trained yet.

Schools cannot refuse on the basis of not being toilet trained.

Kanaloa · 02/02/2023 21:28

turrrniiipz · 02/02/2023 21:24

@PAFMO

That is discriminatory towards children who have additional needs and aren't toilet trained yet.

Schools cannot refuse on the basis of not being toilet trained.

Schools can’t really refuse the child on that basis but they can say they do not have changing facilities/cannot have staff do it, and therefore require the parents to handle personal care… so basically they’re refusing the child because no parent is going to drop their kid at school then show up every other hour to change them!

carpool · 02/02/2023 21:41

When my DGD started pre-school it was not mandatory for the children to be potty trained (although it was to attend the after school club). She was fully potty trained anyway but I know of at least one child who wasn't.

JammiDodgers · 02/02/2023 21:42

Tillow4ever · 02/02/2023 15:05

Do you have children?

Show quote history

Clearly not .

JammiDodgers · 02/02/2023 21:46

For safeguarding etc he needs to wipe his own bottom at 3.5 but needs encouragement and time ( as well as the privacy ) to do so.

I am a former Nursery Manager.. perhaps have a word with yours too.
All sorts of things for me are standing out here. Have a chat with the manager. In confidence.

SarahAshley2 · 02/02/2023 21:55

I can relate as I was a bit worried when my son went to nursery and wasn’t being helped in the toilet. I always wiped his bottom for him as he did such a terrible job! He’s 4.5 and I still wipe it for him but ask him to have a go first. He tends to not poo at nursery and waits until he gets home but I’ve told him to tell an adult if he’s going for a poo and if he wants one of them to help him and they do wipe his bottom for him.
I do feel sorry for your little one but it just means lots of practice at home and tell him to tell an adult if he’s going for a poo and needs help.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 02/02/2023 22:03

There are no blanket ‘safeguarding’ rules which state two adults must be present to deliver personal care in nurseries or schools or which state staff can’t wipe bottoms etc. It’s absolutely not true that at 3.5 children have to wipe their own bottoms ‘for safeguarding.’ Many children are not even potty trained at that age and in special schools children and young people will need assistance with personal care into and beyond their teens. Some settings have their own policies around personal or intimate care but there are no national rules around it in terms of what teachers/ support staff can and can’t do.

randomsabreuse · 02/02/2023 22:13

My 4 year old can sometimes successfully wipe his bottom and sometimes smears shit everywhere. I think some of the issue is proportions and arm length to properly reach...

My DD could mostly manage by 3.5 and to be honest seemed to avoid using the toilets at school and nursery as much as she could - but she's always been much leggier than her brother so had relatively longer arms.

Oopswediditagain2023 · 02/02/2023 22:27

BloomingXmas · 02/02/2023 15:01

At 3.5, and in preschool, I would expect a child to be able to wipe their bottom themselves.

Yes - my 2.5 year old can, to add. It was a stipulation of her going to her pre school.

Original poster
SeenYourArse · 02/02/2023 23:01

Kanaloa · 02/02/2023 21:21

It all sounds very melodramatic. Sobbing and wailing over it etc. It might be better if he needs a lot of help toileting to teach him to say ‘please can you help me wipe’ so that they know. He might have been coming out of the cubicle or similar and the teacher didn’t notice. Either way I’d mention so they know that he isn’t toileting independently and needs support, then coach him a bit on speaking up and telling someone he’s going beforehand rather than crying because he’s calling and nobody comes.

Did you actually read either of my posts??. …

He is 3 ffs he cried because he was sat on a toilet for a genuine 4 minutes minimum shouting for help and nobody came until they realised he wasn’t in the nursery room itself! I was stood in the queue to collect him whilst 6 other parents collected their DC whilst they were called across the room, collected their bag and water bottle on the way and a little summary of their day to the parent collecting I know this took 3/4 mins as I was thinking I was going to be late getting around to collect my older DS from his class, you queue alongside the ceiling to waist height glass windows into the classroom so I could see the little heads all bobbing up every time someone was called..he wasn’t amongst them the whole time from when I arrived who knows how long before I arrived he was in the toilet?! They don’t THATS MY POINT, 4 mins is a long time for anyone never mind a toddler. Anyway he’s allowed to be melodrama he’s a toddler 🙄 though it is out of character for him he’s not given to histrionics he’s a chilled guy usually.
Again did you read my post at all? I made them aware he isn’t yet independently toileting even BEFORE he started and they know he still isn’t because they see him 3 days a week! And they are part of his reluctance to be fully independent because they do it for him to save time as I’ve also previously stated 🙄

OP posts:
Original poster
SeenYourArse · 02/02/2023 23:06

Sapphire387 · 02/02/2023 20:37

Is your username a joke, with this thread?!

Tbh, it sounds like you need to focus on teaching him to wipe his bottom properly.

No actually! It’s a pleasant coincidence, it’s a northern expression meaning to have become decidedly displeased with a person/situation. It’s been my user name for a few years now so far.
Im trying to teach him to every day but he’s 3 and quite immature for his age yet, he absolutely does try but struggles to reach and makes a terrible mess.

OP posts:
NomiMacaroni · 03/02/2023 07:42

My little boy is just 2 weeks older than yours and he absolutely does not wipe his own bottom to my satisfaction. He does try.

I do think the way you speak about your child as 'immature' 'babyish', 'sensitive' isn't great. That kind of perspective might be causing him to act babyish. If he's neurotypical he's far from being an infant. Idk why, it just gave me a bad taste in my mouth like one of those parents who think their child can get away/be excused from stuff because of these reasons. I'm not saying that for his age now, but for the future? If that makes sense.

That being said, my kiddo would absolutely be scared and upset if he was left alone and calling for help and no one came. A few minutes seems like a lifetime for them.

PaperFun · 03/02/2023 07:49

They should have known where your son was. Poor little boy. I get why you feel sad.

(as an aside, I often read that people throw away kids’ soiled underwear rather than clean and wash it. I find it so wasteful).

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 03/02/2023 07:52

Kanaloa · 02/02/2023 21:21

It all sounds very melodramatic. Sobbing and wailing over it etc. It might be better if he needs a lot of help toileting to teach him to say ‘please can you help me wipe’ so that they know. He might have been coming out of the cubicle or similar and the teacher didn’t notice. Either way I’d mention so they know that he isn’t toileting independently and needs support, then coach him a bit on speaking up and telling someone he’s going beforehand rather than crying because he’s calling and nobody comes.

He's 3.5, they are all melodramatic at that age, no concept of time and alone - of course he was crying.

OP my child still needed help at 3.5 to wipe his bum.

mrsDracoMalfoy · 03/02/2023 07:53

BloomingXmas · 02/02/2023 15:01

At 3.5, and in preschool, I would expect a child to be able to wipe their bottom themselves.

Fuck off. My son is 5 and still needs help wiping his arse. Jeeze. Your expectations are wrong!

Untitledsquatboulder · 03/02/2023 07:55

BloomingXmas · 02/02/2023 15:01

At 3.5, and in preschool, I would expect a child to be able to wipe their bottom themselves.

Hilarious 😂

YANBU to be annoyed OP, that's shoddy care. Can't believe you chucked his pants though, poo washes out.

Kanaloa · 03/02/2023 07:55

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 03/02/2023 07:52

He's 3.5, they are all melodramatic at that age, no concept of time and alone - of course he was crying.

OP my child still needed help at 3.5 to wipe his bum.

Show quote history

I wasn’t saying it in a horrible way. I’ve worked with loads of preschoolers. They are all generally very melodramatic. But then the parent usually realises this and says ‘right I’ll need to remind the nursery and teach my child to ask someone to go with them to the toilet.’

Coffeeandchocs · 03/02/2023 07:59

OP, I really sympathise, it’s such a horrible feeling to be let down by people you trust to care for your child. You are absolutely right to be upset/angry about this.

I spoke to them this morning (he’s not in on a Thursday) and the teacher said “oh he hasn't met the other lady who was here yesterday before so might not have been confident enough to tell her he was going to the toilet”

I would be going to speak to the nursery manager after this response. If the teacher had been more forthcoming in accepting their wrongdoing and told you how they would do things differently from now on, I could have left it there. But this response is not acceptable. It’s placing the blame on your child not being confident enough. The nursery worker that went into the toilets should have made sure your son was clean and comfortable knowing he’d just been to the toilet. She should have asked if he’d done a wee or a poo. There is also no mention of her encouraging him to wash his hands either so I’d be concerned about that too.

I’d like to add, at this age I’d be expecting the nursery to be encouraging independence, but also providing assistance where necessary. Wiping bottoms in the age range is usually where assistance is required, even if they have a go of cleaning themselves up first.

Definitely don’t leave this here, they need to review how they are assisting the children toileting, and the nursery manager needs to do this and give feedback to you.