To wonder if junior football is nepo baby land?

[Goldenboot]

Son age 11 is reasonably good at football. Always been in top team at v competitive school. Not pretending he’s premier league but people have suggested he goes down academy route at times. As a family we have had too much going on to really pursue it. For many years he played in an informal team which is not part of a league.

We are foreign, didn’t grow up here so have probably not done the research required or got the inside knowledge about the politics of junior football!

It seems to be nearly impossible to navigate the trial dates etc and different teams locally.

He outgrew the non-league team a while ago but we only just found a club for him to join a few miles away quite recently.

From the moment he joined, there was a bit of a lingering vibe of resentment that an ‘outsider’ had got in while others who had been in team didn’t make it this year to match squad.

There have been a couple of snide comments from the assistant coach that DS is at independent school. We laughed it off and have done nothing but thank this coach and others for their help and time. DH has driven half an hour out of his way many times to give lifts to other boys etc when others didn’t step up who lived closer so it is not like we are not trying to help. Signed up to help at stalls on open days etc.

Several weeks ago, it transpired that this coach had lost the registration card for DS so we had to provide all the info again. He was not allowed to play for several matches.

It happens. I have ADHD so I can relate to losing things!

But now I’m wondering if there is a bit of an attempt to block DS? All three coaches have got their sons in the match squad. One of the coach’s son is good, the others are really below par. Their sons seem to get more games than others. By the way, this team has won nearly all their games this season when DS is playing but are in the bottom division which most of the parents didn’t even realise.

It is clear to nearly all the other parents that DS is one of the top 3 players but he has got man of the match once, other quite terrible players have had it several times.

I would like to think it’s because they’re trying to be inclusive but the poor judgement calls and lack of strategic direction says otherwise.

We paste on smiles and encourage the others and play it down with our son. He is always humble as I have drilled into DC that no one likes a boaster and that he is privileged and must never rest on his laurels. He can always do better.

DH was very sporty (Was on course to being pro in another sport before injury blew him off course). Basically, he is very tough on DS but he is dismayed at the treatment of DS and one or two other good players.

I am trying to encourage DH to become a coach as he could do better for the whole team not just DS but suspect he will not be welcomed!

Is junior football always so political? What are we doing wrong? I haven’t let any of these thoughts be known to other parents so am venting here as I know how bad it can sound said out loud.

We will trial him for other clubs but is there any point if all junior football teams are full of coaches and their nepo babies getting favorable treatment or inverted snobbery towards indy school kids?

Has anyone got good experience of junior football at this age (tweens/early teens)?

Should we push for an academy or hope he is discovered somewhere by scouts or is he too old?

I am very worried that he’s showing a real aptitude for rugby (top player in his year at school that favours rugby) and both of us are not keen due to DH disastrous injuries from this at top level.

Football feels far safer.

This doesn't sound right at all, I think you need to keep looking around different clubs/teams as they will all have a slightly different ethos according to who the coaches are etc. It also sounds like your DS needs to be in a stronger team, not one at the bottom of the league, otherwise it will get very frustrating eventually. Speaking from experience here!

PS Academies can be a much better option as the coaches are professionals, not random parents with their own issues, so there is a lot less favourism going on!

Thank you @Phewthatwasclose. I wonder if he lacks the killer instinct and if that will hold him back. He’s good strategically and very skilled but unusually for someone his age, passes too much and is too much of a team player!

When we belatedly found out which division the team was in, we thought ‘Oh well, at least he will get lots of match playing time and it will boost his confidence’ but I guess we were wrong!

Maybe it's just not a great club/team but i think you're maybe worring unnecessarily. My ds plays local league football, pretty good player but certainly not the next Messi. Probably 2 in his particular squad are excellent, but even they will find it tough as football is so competitive. There is ALWAYS a young player better than you x 10!

Man of the match is given to players who've made a great contribution or those that have massively improved in a game, I think that's fair and encouraging. No point giving it to the same players every week, just because they are naturally better.

If your ds doesn't actually gel with the coach or the players, then look elsewhere. If the comradery and team culture isnt there, then its never going to be that helpful for the kids. He isn't too old at all...Good things to do are get him playing during holiday clubs etc. Most premier league clubs run sessions, so can be "seen" that way too and let's him assess himself against others at a similar level.

I don't know the football world... but very familiar with the volunteer kids club world.

Parents volunteer at an activity so that their child can benefit. Its a lot more restrictive on family time if a patent is volunteering for something their child can't access.

You do get volunteers without children too. But a lot of places rely on parents filling the gaps.

(Personally I'm counting the weeks until my youngest ages out of my club so I'm free to do my job without parenting... and for her to get some independence at the next group up!)

It's probably the club. Where do your son's friends play? Find out from other parents which local teams are good. Our local club is a lovely welcoming place entirely run by volunteers. As for getting into an academy your son would normally have to be scouted. My DS plays at grass roots level for an academy as well as his local and school teams. He was scouted and then had to trial before being offered a place. It's very very competitive even at grass roots level and takes over family life. My DS loves football but it's old enough to realise he's not ever going to be professional. However playing at the level he does has been great fun for him and he's played overseas a couple of times at big tournaments.

Good point @PuttingDownRoots . We really do appreciate that they’re giving up their whole weekends and one week night to do this.

My son never answers back @Valhalla17 and so I would hope he doesn’t give off the vibe that he’s not gelling with the coaches. But it slightly shakes our confidence in his ability if even such mediocre coaches can’t see he’s rather good. I would be going out of my way to encourage any new kid and if anything, would be twice as tough on my own DC to make sure no parent ever raises an eyebrow over favouritism.

One thing there's no shortage off is junior football clubs. If your son is as good as you say he is then he'll already be on other clubs radar. Find a club where he gets on with tge coach amd players if this one doesn't suit. Being at independent school will have nothing to do with it.
Academies are very different to Saturday/Sunday football Not as much fun.

Find a better club. At U13 they’ll be moving up to 11 a side so there’s lots of movement as teams have to increase squad size.

If he’s academy level the scouts will find him, but scouts are more likely to be at the matches of successful teams (cup winners etc).

It’s worth bearing in mind that lots of local soccer schools call themselves academies but have nothing to do with professional football clubs. Rule of thumb is that if you’re paying for it, it’s not an academy.

It’s also not typical that parents/coaches won’t be welcoming, it sounds perhaps your son is seen as a bit of a threat and they want to ‘keep him in his place’, it won’t be the same when he’s playing with boys of the same level.

You can also ask his school about trials for district football, probably too late for this year but will help you understand the process for next season.

I hope your son is really enjoying his football, you sound like very supportive parents. I am afraid that junior football is frequently full of nepotism, with coaches ' children rarely being dropped, often player of the week etc. It is true that the coaches give up their own time, but that does not give free passes to their children. If there is not another more suitable club for your son you will have to just continue as you have been. As your son is good, they will want to keep him in the side. Continue as you have been, supportive of your son & the club, cream always rises!

IME that coaches kids always get to play, that’s one of (few) perks… doesn’t make it right/fair though. I’ve seen amazing coaches on weaker teams, and rubbish ones on better teams… it’s awful when the coaches have favourites/least favourites… we’ve been on the end of it at times and just encouraged DC to do their best and pretend we haven’t noticed. I doubt they will want your DH involved if there’s already 3 coaches but might be worth an ask…

Honestly, if he’s at a private school, I’d prioritise rugby. Far less politics and the rules are changing next year to make it much safer.

Ds is in his final year of all this and I was saying today that tbh I'm really glad.

The politics in his current club are exhausting. He just wants to enjoy playing. I'm sick of trekking around the county every Sunday for him to get 20 minutes match time some weeks.

Today we've had a load of argy bargy in the parents WhatsApp group so we'll soon be letting them know we're out. He's going to join his college team instead.

Wow so many tips and insights! Thank you. @RedHelenB I don’t think he would be noticed as they’re in a rubbish division so no one serious will be observing. There is a high chance he’s not good enough but I would like him to be in a team that’s more his level. How do you know in advance whether it will be a club where he gets on with the coaches etc? He’s very amenable and good natured. Certainly doesn’t get it from his stroppy mum!

And thank you for that lovely message @Murdoch1949 . That’s very kind.

Every bit of that advice is great @OneMomentPlease . Great advice to ask the school. They have a head of football who should know (though apparently they get annoyed if you prioritise club sports over Saturday school fixtures which begin in earnest next year!). What impact does moving to 11 a side have? New kids joining? More game time as more spaces to fill?

Thanks @edwinbear. Will those rules make it a lot safer? I’m really worried/paranoid about the link between dementia and MND and rugby.
DS is the only one who tackles in his team and annoyingly, while he lacks the killer instinct in football, he seems to throw himself literally into rugby. He is definitely built more like a footballer though so am worried about what happens when they play big name schools who will literally source pupils from around the world to join their schools and teams.

Go for rugby if he's good at it. It'll be far more disciplined, friendlier, and less shouty. There'll be the odd twat, but you get those everywhere. It feels scarier to watch, but it's more fun!

If he's good at football, I suspect he's more likely to be in the back row on the rugby pitch. Outside half should be a fairly safe position to play. 😉

So would I especially with all the long term terrible impact of rugby and the number of players with Mnd and other neurological conditions. Terrible sport. Stick to football.

In my experience of academy and high level grass roots leagues that’s football. It’s less about the kids and often about the parents who shout the loudest. It’s a bit better when they’re a bit older but it’s very political and cliquey. It’s also amazing and a brilliant thing for them to do

I SO wish he was good at tennis or golf to see me through my retirement! Alas, it’s not happening 😅

www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rfu-council-approves-lowering-of-the-tackle-height-across-community-rugby-in-england-2023

@Goldenboot statement from the RFU above, but essentially, they are lowering the tackle height to below the waist, specifically to combat the issues regarding head injuries and concussion. There has been huge debate about it over the last couple of weeks and the communication from the RFU has been pretty poor. However, this is something that was introduced in France in 2019 and the overwhelming evidence is that it has made the game much safer. We had a kid from France join our U14 team this season and Dad is very much in favour - the kid is also a fantastic tackler.

It also means the game will become faster, more running, more passing, less kicking. My DS is fast, fit but quite slight, so plays on the wing, it sounds like your DS is similar? So for these boys, it will be a huge improvement, less so for the bigger, front/second row, especially those who are very tall and will struggle to get low enough to tackle the smaller kids round the waist. Our French dad says it took some adjustment for players/coaches/refs to adjust but he feels it was very much worth it for the improved safety.

archive.ph/ogtDn

Analysis from trials showing head to head contact per game falling from 9.5 to 3.5.

Head of Football at school will be able to tell you which local leagues and then clubs are the highest standards so that you can target those, it’s a minefield if you’re new to the area and everyone else seems to have an innate knowledge! The majority of leagues play on a Sunday so ok for school.

With the move to 11 a side, match length increases so more potential game time, but the main advantage is that teams have to take on new players (most 9 a side teams prob have 12ish in the squad and will increase to 15-16ish eg), so there will be lots of open trials at the end of this season (presuming he’s U12 now).

In terms of knowing if the team is right for him, maybe go and watch a match, see how the coach is with the kids, if they play the way your son wants to play, if the parents yell at the ref etc. You’ll get an idea of the culture. If he’s moving to a different league a new manager might consider letting him train with them whilst he’s still signed for the other club.

Also, a PP mentioned selective academies at grassroots level. A lot of premier clubs have these and they can be a useful way of seeing where your son fits relative to other keen players in the area, again there will probably be open trials.

I’m with you on the rugby/injuries, although people who know rugby tell me it’s no worse than football. Good luck!

Football is a pretty bitchy sport. Rugby is more friendly really. More head injuries though.

Lowering the tackle height is beyond silly. It means putting your head/neck in the path of oncoming thighs running at you.

A collision based sport with a greater emphasis on size than ever, rugby is exceptionally dangerous. The increase in bulk size over the last two decades (kids downing protein shakes and constantly hitting the gym) makes collisions mini car crashes. Most of the growing number of lawsuits deal with players who have played in this era (players in the late 30s/early 40s)... older players from before this era are largely healthy as they were more normal sized thus the impact was far less severe than it is now.

Besides becoming more dangerous to play, rugby is also much less enjoyable to watch as the increased bulk now makes 30 players on the field far too many. The game is unrecognisable from the one I grew up watching. There’s now no star players (household names) as it’s a lot harder for individuals to stand out now with the game being much more physical/brutish and attritional with much less space to make line breaks.

Physical activity is obviously good, but no sane parent with a choice of sports would put their kid anywhere near modern rugby.

Thanks @OneMomentPlease. The parents at the club are fine. They’re a nice bunch really. Nobody shouts at the coaches or kids. The coaches do not seem mean. It’s just not overly friendly and a bit sort of passive-aggressive/aloof. They are not overly fussed on DS and seem to highlight players who don’t actually put in the effort. Had to chuckle when one coach - whose son is probably the worst in the team for messing around and skills - said ‘ooh your DS is actually getting quite good now thanks to being in this team’. Er… They also don’t seem to tell the kids which matches are more important eg there was a crucial one this weekend and while the parents were aware, this didn’t necessarily get filtered down to the children. Interesting that rugby is a friendlier sport despite being ‘posher’. It’s definitely not the same where I come from and football is seen as much more mellow.