To NOT leave rented house when I said I would?

[WaitingForLifeToGetEasier]

Been in current rented house for 9 years. Landlord is a company with 30+ properties.

Tenancy is generally renewed every year as LL puts rent up.

Last year, less than 6 months into our latest year long tenancy agreement, an estate agent contacted me out of the blue saying he'd been instructed to sell the property so I needed to agree to a time for them to value and take photos as well for viewings.

I was shocked as LL has not said anything and it transpired that the letting agent has added a 6 month break clause into the tenancy agreement. There had never been one In previous agreements and I wasn't made aware.

I made it clear i was not going to allow anyone in the property until the end of the agreement and if the landlord wanted to sell, I'd leave at that time.

Tenancy is up in early March. I had expected to get a Section 21 in early January but nothing.

We have been looking but properties are either not available anymore or agent doesn't get back to us so have not found a property yet. Rents seem to have gone up £3-400 a month which is going to be impossible.

Not sure if LL is just expecting us to leave or what but I am not intending to leave in early March and will stay as long as possible - await section 21 etc.

AIBU?

@justasking111 Based on your experience, would you then advise the OP NOT to follow up on the S21? I said the opposite, but you’re more knowledgeable.

My fear would be that it’s been issued and I’d missed it somehow. But perhaps it’s better not to.

I thought this. Initially I felt quite sorry for them, but they sound thoroughly unpleasant, entitled, and rude.

Of course she shouldn't make herself homeless by leaving without somewhere to go. But blaming the landlord for her failure to read the contract she signed and then being as obstructive as possible isn't going to help her, ultimately. Far better to check the situation and try to negotiate an extension than to destroy her chance of a good reference and make the move even more stressful.

The landlord could have informed you himself of his intentions. He chose not to and went along the formal route. I'm not sure I would force someone to evict me however I would not be packed up and ready to go in March (unless you've found something else). I would just pay my rent as usual and see what happens, but ultimately you're gonna have to go. In the meantime I'd be looking hard for alternative accommodation including speaking with your letting agent who will (hopefully) know you have been a good tenant and be eager to keep you as a customer.

It's unfortunate, but it's your problem. Don't make it someone else's.

If your landlord has multiple properties is there a chance he'll l rent you another one or is he selling all of them? I'd ask as this may be a possibility.
Are you on council house waiting list? The lists are long but if you are going to be homeless they usually will find you somewhere but they won't without the section 21. And if you leave before that they will say you've deliberately made yourself homeless.
It's fine for people to say just leave when you're supposed to but you can't leave if you've nowhere to go.

Yes there may be rights to refuse viewings, and play hard ball over paperwork, and refuse to leave until you're legally evicted and legally speaking that's your "right".

The OP is not waiting to be evicted before leaving. She hasn't been served notice to leave, thus not only does she not have to leave, she has no idea if the LL still want her to leave,and if she does leave without having had notice she will still be liable to pay rent.

Odd thread, there seems to be some confusion about what an S21 actually is. An S21 is always served when a landlord wishes to reclaim a property. This is a legal requirement. The tenant then has two months to leave the property. If, by the end if that period, the tenant has not left, then the landlord can then enforce eviction through the courts.

OP has had no S21, therefore no formal notice to leave the property, any phone conversations etc are irrelevant.

In your position OP, I'd contact the agent for clarification, if the landlord wants you to leave, wait for your S21, then you have a definite timescale.

OP, due to the nonsense so-called advice from many on here, can I respectfully suggest that you head over to MSE's Buying, Selling and Renting forum where there are knowledgeable posters who can help you.

I seem to remember from reading there that whilst your contract may state that you have to allow viewings in the final 2 months, your Common Law right to Quiet Enjoyment trumps that. As one erudite poster there used to type: "the contract could say I have to wear purple on Mondays, but it's completely unenforceable".

The landlord could have informed you himself of his intentions. He chose not to and went along the formal route

FFS can people not read? THE LL HAS NOT GONE THE FORMAL ROUTE. THE OP HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN NOTICE TO LEAVE.

She hasn't been given notice in the absence of a formal notice, has she? For all she knows, landlord no longer wants to sell.

If it’s a fixed term tenancy, they can’t use a section 21 until the fixed term tenancy ends in early March.

Not in my area, it's about 6 to 8 weeks if this is the first hearing. If there's already been a heating it's 10-14 days (not working days either!)

@FrodisCapering in what way has she had notice?

I didn't say you were thick. Plenty of people on the thread are being thick though, and spouting incorrect information.

If you don't know what you're talking about, best not to advise incorrectly.

I've read all OP's posts but I can't see details of when this new clause was inserted. If it was before you signed - ie, you signed it and just missed that it was now there - then it's hard to see how you could argue against it, sneaky as it is. Would it have done you any good if you'd spotted it and contested it? Presumably he'd have just evicted you sooner.

I'm not without sympathy but forcing your own eviction is only going to harm you in the end. It won't be anything more than a minor inconvenience for him.

I'd suggest that communication mighty be important here. Speak with your letting agent and/or landlord. Find out what the current situation is, if they expect your tenancy agreement to end and when, and if needed, whether they're able to advise of any suitable alternative properties within your budget. If you can't afford the current market rates for renting, you need to urgently get this information from them so that you can find out what your options are re: social housing, relocating, etc. Once you've got that information, speak with Shelter and your local Housing services.

You might need to stay until formally evicted in order to be considered for social housing, but even in that scenario, communication and maintaining civil relations will be important - you'll still need references after all!

It might be worth asking Shelter about your position on allowing viewings, to make sure that's a hill you really are prepared to die on. I don't know the specific legalities for wherever you are, but refusing might be using up some goodwill you might want to reserve for later when you might really need it.

To sum up the thread -
OP - AIBU?
Lots of posters - Yes, YABU.
OP - You’re all thick and batshit!

A section 21 must be issued at least 2 months before the LL wants his property back.

It can be issued during tenancy period.
If it isn’t then technically a new tenancy agreement cannot take place as you’d have to issue a new tenancy agreement with the section 21 or the tenant is basically living in the property without a tenancy agreement.

If a section 21 is issued now LL has to wait 2 months

@Autumntimeagain

OP why the hell do you think that somehow your convenience trumps the house owners rights ??

House owner doesn’t have a legal right to do viewings. Tenant has a legal right to refuse viewings. That’s way

Are you deluded in some way ?

Lol, ironic from someone who has made up tenancy laws in their head

It doesn't matter one single iota whether your landlord is rich or poor, the house belongs to them !

They have decided to stop leasing the property, and can do what they like with it ffs because it's theirs !

They really can’t. There are laws and processes to follow.

You’re welcome.

Op: A simple phone call to the agency tomorrow should tell you all that you need to know.

Why speculate when a mere phone call can clear up the confusion?

How has the LL given notice?

Im gonna keep asking people who say this.

Can just imagine the replies if the OP posted “I rented for 9 years from a LL with 30+ Properties. In august I got a call from a random estate agent telling me the LL was selling, a break clause had been inserted and I had to leave in March. I didn’t hear another thing, but I left anyway and now my LL is chasing me for rent as he’d changed his mind about selling”.

She’d have been lambasted for stupidity. Yet that is basically what people are suggesting she should do.

A lot of landlords owning multiple properties, the majority with mortgage leverage, are getting out of the market because the allowances for improvements/repairs/maintenance can't now be set against capital gains tax in the same way they were IMHO. In the long term that may mean more properties on the market but in expensive areas it's not clear who can afford to buy them. In the short term it means misery for those where there's less to rent. It would be good again IMHO if the government would clamp down on overseas and offshore investors who have inflated both the housing market and rents.

As a LL of one small property bought outright I'm happy to keep the rents low and pay for improvements to make my tenants comfortable and repairs are done ASAP. I don't consider that being charitable or laudable - just sensible and moral as someone in a privileged position.

As a previous tenant, I would certainly not take the word of an EA that a house was on the market. I would check my lease and contact Shelter - then contact the landlord or his agent pref by email for a written record and ask if they genuinely are selling. Any viewings are at your discretion and unless you are deliberately getting in the way of viewings they need to sort it out with you.

You legally need that s21 if looking at council houses which are gold dust I might add

also if nowhere found when issued he has 12 weeks to evict you sadly been there and done that as I wasn’t allowed on a wait list till they actually evicted me by social housing rules because if I left before I’d be making myself homeless.

now do not ask the letting agency for the s21 or landlord that might be a dick move it bloody isn’t legally they can’t evict without it, keep looking though for another house as stressful as that is.

This is on them not you to chase this up. Plus you don’t have to let folks in to view at all in fact is the house listed anywhere as I’d check that first if so sit tight till you get the s21 unless you move first.

keep looking and good luck

Wrong.

S21 notices need to be posted to the property or hand delivered

Where do you get this shit from? Seriously?

That's your take on it. It certainly isn't the majority of, well informed, posters take.