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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To NOT leave rented house when I said I would?

769 replies

WaitingForLifeToGetEasier · 29/01/2023 12:11

Been in current rented house for 9 years. Landlord is a company with 30+ properties.

Tenancy is generally renewed every year as LL puts rent up.

Last year, less than 6 months into our latest year long tenancy agreement, an estate agent contacted me out of the blue saying he'd been instructed to sell the property so I needed to agree to a time for them to value and take photos as well for viewings.

I was shocked as LL has not said anything and it transpired that the letting agent has added a 6 month break clause into the tenancy agreement. There had never been one In previous agreements and I wasn't made aware.

I made it clear i was not going to allow anyone in the property until the end of the agreement and if the landlord wanted to sell, I'd leave at that time.

Tenancy is up in early March. I had expected to get a Section 21 in early January but nothing.

We have been looking but properties are either not available anymore or agent doesn't get back to us so have not found a property yet. Rents seem to have gone up £3-400 a month which is going to be impossible.

Not sure if LL is just expecting us to leave or what but I am not intending to leave in early March and will stay as long as possible - await section 21 etc.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Spectre8 · 30/01/2023 12:05

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 11:56

Re the break clause - if I’d signed the same document for 9 years I probably wouldn’t bother reading through 30 pages either. I’d probably expect any big changes to be flagged. Onus is still on OP for missing that clause (not that it matters now) but I guess it’s a harsh lesson to learn isn’t it!

The responsibility is always on the person signing a contract to read it. You can't use an excuse I signed for 9yrs so I didnt feel the need to. That won't float in court. If your stupid enough to sign things without reading them thats on you.

LakieLady · 30/01/2023 12:06

If you can't find anywhere to move to, you can't move and until they've issued a S21, got a possession order and the requisite period has expired, they can't make you.

Apart from anything else, if you leave before you need to, and have to seek help from the council, they're likely to regard you as intentionally homeless and then they won't have a duty to help you.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 12:06

@Spectre8 thats exactly what I said. That’s why I said the onus is still on the OP. I wouldn’t go to court and claim it wasn’t valid because I didn’t read it properly (because I’m not an idiot)

My point was I’d have done the same as OP and it would have been my own fault, but I understand why she didn’t go through it with a fine tooth comb

MrsHutch3029 · 30/01/2023 12:30

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 11:54

It sounds like your friend is going through something a bit different (but sadly common these days).

If people haven’t found anywhere new when s21 ends then they often stay where they are u til they’re forcibly moved out. I can’t imagine many people make themselves sleep on the streets when they have a legal right to stay in a warm home instead.

Show quote history

Yes, and it’s a situation she’s ended up in by following legal advice 😕 there’s probably slight differences between her’s and OP’s situations, like financial means. I could start an entire post about it all! Anyway, thank you again for talking me down from my small hill haha! Have a good day.

GrasstrackGirl · 30/01/2023 12:45

I swear this thread has given me an aneurysm.

Chouetted · 30/01/2023 14:03

I swear half the people on this thread haven't rented in the last fifty years.... how do they not know what a s21 is?

S8 is the one to worry about...

Thedoghouse23 · 30/01/2023 14:24

Chouetted · 30/01/2023 14:03

I swear half the people on this thread haven't rented in the last fifty years.... how do they not know what a s21 is?

S8 is the one to worry about...

People are struggling with section 21. Don't throw in section 8. It will cause confusion 🤣

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 14:27

😂😂

I think people have maybe confused s21 with a possession order or warrant of possession. Which is fine - but when 400 posts have clearly stated what a s21 actually is it’s very annoying they’re still prattling on telling OP she’ll be kicked out with no notice and no reference

SedatePixie · 30/01/2023 14:57

To call other posters 'Intellectually challenged" and , "not very bright" is a bit rich when neither you nor your husband, had the wit to read through a contract and spot the new clause.

You had no excuse for not doing so, especially as possession of your children's home relied on that contract.

Do you think it is possible that you and your husband are also "intellectually challenged" and , "not very bright"?

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 15:04

You had no excuse for not doing so, especially as possession of your children's home relied on that contract.

Same goes for all renters on any type of contract.

SedatePixie · 30/01/2023 15:07

Absolutely!

Sophie89j · 30/01/2023 16:19

If you haven’t been issued your Notice To Quit or Section 21 then you have no obligation to leave.

Patineur · 30/01/2023 17:52

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 10:44

Crikey you really do live up to the obstinate bit of your name don’t you.

It doesn’t matter how many times you come on here and say it, people won’t always agree with you.

OP - just phone the agent. Either they’ll give you 2 months notice now, or you’ll be able to find out if things have changed and negotiate something longer.

You have the upper hand as they seemingly haven’t issued paperwork, don’t lose that by being a dick over it honestly, you and your kids just don’t need the hassle. You might find there is actually a straightforward solution and getting this angry was unnecessary.

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If the agents have forgotten to serve the notice, OP would have to be mad to remind them.

Patineur · 30/01/2023 17:59

MrsHutch3029 · 30/01/2023 11:12

March isn’t far away, and what happens if OP hasn’t found anywhere to live by then? Don’t think I was very clear, I didn’t necessarily mean a legal battle with LL, but possibly with the housing system. One of my personal friends is going through the latter at the moment and has been in emergency accommodation for 2 years.
LL doesn’t have to word it the exact way it happened, could put “was asked to let potential new tenants in and refused.” or “was informed of intent to sell and didn’t make effort to vacate until L21 was served.” An estate agent or LL isn’t likely going to ask OP’s side of it.
I’m looking out for OP here, as I can’t see it going well for them.

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So the landlord would be saying that the tenant acted totally lawfully. No prospective landlord worth having would be remotely bothered by that.

Patineur · 30/01/2023 18:05

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 11:31

Honestly people like you are the reason we need a mute / block button on MN.

There are views other than your own you know. And OP came on to ask for them.

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There are also views other than yours, and @TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl is perfectly entitled to express hers.

Your problem is that she is also setting out indisputable facts which seem to be inconvenient to you. It's a shame that she has to keep repeating them, but there are an awful lot of people spouting rubbish that needs to be corrected.

MrsHutch3029 · 30/01/2023 18:36

Already covered it with ObstinateHeadStrongGirl :) think I was being emotional due to a friendship with someone who’s having housing difficulties. There’s too many comments to go through and delete them all, so I was hoping that people would see that I’ve accepted that I was being a bit of a div.

WSussexBelle · 30/01/2023 19:03

It sounds like no section 21 has been issued yet and therefore you don't have to leave for at least 2 months.
Once the current ast ends it'll go onto a periodic tenancy and you still will get 2 months once the section 21 is served.
The only people who can end a tenancy is the court or a tenant. Not the LL/agents themselves. You can take this all the way and sit it out until bailiffs but do you want to?
The rental market is extremely busy. I know i work in it and it took me 10 months to find my current place as a single mum on uc.
Always keep paying rent as otherwise the ll will come after you with a mcol for missing rent after you leave.
It's a horrible situation to be in I know, but waiting until the end of your fixed term and finding somewhere new is the best option for all parties, for you absolutely is.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 20:22

MrsHutch3029 · 30/01/2023 18:36

Already covered it with ObstinateHeadStrongGirl :) think I was being emotional due to a friendship with someone who’s having housing difficulties. There’s too many comments to go through and delete them all, so I was hoping that people would see that I’ve accepted that I was being a bit of a div.

The housing situation is absolutely dire for so many renters even when they exercise all the rights. It’s horrific, and scary, and something seriously needs to be done a Parliament level about it

Nocutenamesleft · 30/01/2023 21:51

WaitingForLifeToGetEasier · 29/01/2023 16:44

You do come across quite vindictive and spiteful OP. Why do you keep mentioning the fact your LL is a millionaire and how you’ve paid off his mortgage? All completely irrelevant. Why didn’t you get a mortgage and buy your own house if you don’t want to “pay off someone else’s mortgage?” Maybe be grateful to the LL for providing you with somewhere to live? After all if you couldn’t get a mortgage and you’re not eligible for social housing where would you be without private LL’s (who take all of the financial risk)??

Landlords are getting out in droves partly bc of this mentality - and I don’t blame them. The government aren’t building nearly enough houses to meet demand, rents are rising astronomically as demand massively outstrips supply.

@FlairBand

We did have our own house but had to sell and rent 15 years ago due to DH getting made redundant along with most of our town so had to sell up and move away, me having a medical condition that meant I couldn't work for 3 years and having a DC with a disability (born before all that I might add) which became more difficult to manage when he became school age meaning long periods out of school so I couldn't go back to work for many years.

If greedy bloody BTL landlords, like mine, hadn't hoarded properties decreasing availability and increasing prices together with charging astronomical rents, we may have been able to save and afford to buy another property years ago!
^
Grateful that I'm paying off a rich landlords property? Landlords should be grateful there are people like me renting their properties so they can end up with hundreds of thousands of pounds in their pockets for virtually zero work, while we're left constantly worried that we will be left homeless at their whim.

Also ridiculous to say LLs face financial risk and they can charge astronomical rents as an argument!

I care as much as about my LL's finances as he cares about mine and will not move for as long as legally possible.^

It’s not really the landlords fault. It’s the raising of the interest by the Bank of England which has a knock on effect.

for example do you know if you rent covers the mortgage or is it mortgage free?

Nocutenamesleft · 30/01/2023 21:54

WaitingForLifeToGetEasier · 29/01/2023 17:04

Just to clarify, no break clause enforced. Tenancy was renewed from last March to this March (was that really not clear?).

I was contacted by a random EA last August, 5 months into new tenancy, telling me the LL wanted to put the property on the market straightaway and wanted access for valuation and viewings. I responded that I had a 12 month contract so what we he on about. He said LL had a 6 month break clause in current tenancy and wanted to sell now. I told him to sling his hook, LL got arsey and I said I wasn't allowing access but would try to move out by end of contract (this March). Nothing more said.

I had read previous contracts and no mention of a break clause before as usually used for new tenants in case there were issues at the beginning of tenancy. No reason to put one in for a long-standing tenant as been there for years with no issues. I didn't even push for essential repairs or maintenance (apart from front door) as worried about LL giving notice so did most myself. Hence having to wait 2 years for something expensive that the LL agreed he was responsible for then leaving it.

Of course my mistake not going through most recent tenancy renewal with a fine tooth comb but didn't think I had to. Just checked dates and rent amount. It was 30 pages long! LL obviously sneakily put that in as he had intended to sell during the new tenancy period but should have been honest about that before renewing rather that blindsiding me with an estate agent contacting me with no preamble.

That was disgusting behaviour not me staying on until I'm given legal notice to quit!

I take it you had a copy which you had to sign?

Nocutenamesleft · 30/01/2023 22:00

WaitingForLifeToGetEasier · 29/01/2023 19:41

So you'd give a negative reference to a tenant of 9 years who'd paid rent on time without fail, looked after your property and left it in excellent condition despite you not doing the minimum required maintenance on the property?Therefore making sure that tenant couldn't find a property to move into so they couldn't move out of your property and you'd have to spend time and money getting bailiffs in?

😂 Not got much sense have you?

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Ahh. Let him worry about that. If he then wants to spend £5000 updates it to get the higher rent. Then let him.

Teentrauma · 31/01/2023 08:30

As had been said many times, they can't force you to leave without a S21.

A little tip. If they do serve you with a S21, if you weren't given a copy of the epc, Gas Safety cert and the government's How to Rent Guide at the start of the tenancy and didn't check you had current copies before serving the notice, the notice would be invalid if challenged. Do you have these? If you don't leave at the end of the notice period, the only way they can get you out is through the courts. However, the landlord/agent should know how tough the market is and may hopefully give you a little more time and may even help you find if you have trouble getting somewhere before resorting to the courts. Therefore, it is in your interests to keep them on side. You can of course give them notice if you're lucky enough to find somewhere first. If the tenancy has become periodic, you only need give 1 month. A landlord must always give 2 months regardless. Good luck.

MrsRaspberry · 01/02/2023 10:44

Legally they don't have to move out without a section 21 notice and even then a council/social housing provider will say hang tight until the date has passed and landlord obtains a court order otherwise you're seen as making yourself intentionally homeless.

mrs55 · 01/02/2023 10:59

Why don’t you just contact the land lord or estate agent or whatever and ask them what’s going on…….

Nikkidannih · 01/02/2023 20:34

What’s happening to you is awful and stressful and I’m sorry it’s happening. If my landlord decided to sell I’d be beside myself. I have zero sympathy for landlords just trying to make a quick bit of cash on the back of a family’s security and sense of home. it’s essentially the rich profiting off of the working class not being able to afford mortgages.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable for wanting to do that. However I think you should get some advice about the implications that will have for you. Shelter are helpful in these situations. Good luck.

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