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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To NOT leave rented house when I said I would?

769 replies

WaitingForLifeToGetEasier · 29/01/2023 12:11

Been in current rented house for 9 years. Landlord is a company with 30+ properties.

Tenancy is generally renewed every year as LL puts rent up.

Last year, less than 6 months into our latest year long tenancy agreement, an estate agent contacted me out of the blue saying he'd been instructed to sell the property so I needed to agree to a time for them to value and take photos as well for viewings.

I was shocked as LL has not said anything and it transpired that the letting agent has added a 6 month break clause into the tenancy agreement. There had never been one In previous agreements and I wasn't made aware.

I made it clear i was not going to allow anyone in the property until the end of the agreement and if the landlord wanted to sell, I'd leave at that time.

Tenancy is up in early March. I had expected to get a Section 21 in early January but nothing.

We have been looking but properties are either not available anymore or agent doesn't get back to us so have not found a property yet. Rents seem to have gone up £3-400 a month which is going to be impossible.

Not sure if LL is just expecting us to leave or what but I am not intending to leave in early March and will stay as long as possible - await section 21 etc.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 07:37

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 04:23

@Patineur
This isn't a question of OP going back on her word. She was simply asked by an estate agent for access for viewings several months ago

the title of the thread is AIBU To NOT leave rented house when I said I would? … there is absolutely nothing ambiguous in that at all. She’s actually asked if SIBU to go back on her word!

Doesn’t matter. She hasn’t been formally asked to leave. End of story.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 07:39

emptythelitterbox · 30/01/2023 05:55

Why haven't you contacted them since August to find out what is going on?

Show quote history

Why would she?

They haven’t issued a s21. Assume that means they don’t want her to leave.

Chouetted · 30/01/2023 07:42

JenniferSlopez · 30/01/2023 01:45

I still think OP would be stupid to not check this.

The landlordzone.co.uk forum advises: 'Use ordinary 1st class post (and get & retain a certificate of posting from the post office). The notice is 'deemed' served on the 2nd business day after the date of posting, and it doesn't matter whether it was ever actually delivered or opened.'

'It's "service" of the notice that matters, not if it was "received" (so if dog ate it.. he never bothered to pick it off mat - doesn't matter).'

If the above is true, it may be the case that a valid notice has already been served, even if OP somehow hasn't received it. I'd not want to leave this to chance as she can presumably be unceremoniously turfed out on the day.

Even if that's the case, there are extra steps to go through before the bailiffs turn up and remove you.

Noone is going to turn up and evict the OP without further notice.

It's probably still a good idea for her to keep her landlord in the loop though, maybe they can help find a new place...

Zebedee55 · 30/01/2023 08:17

A Section 21 has to be served and rubber stamped by a court before an eviction is legal. Regardless of a break clause. A professional landlord should know that, as should any letting agents.

Landlords are running a business, and should act professionally. 🙄

OP - get proper advice before you do anything.

TimeToFlyNow · 30/01/2023 08:23

Section 21s aren't issued by the court.

Zebedee55 · 30/01/2023 08:27

Patineur · 29/01/2023 20:17

I would include the fact that you refused entry to estate agents and that a section 21 had to be issued. Just facts.

So you would deliberately leave out the fact that she had been an excellent tenant for 9 years? Would it not occur to you that messing up your tenant's chances of finding somewhere else would only delay her in moving out and would be the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face?

The fact that the tenant had correctly waited for a s21 notice and had expected the agents to comply with the law about viewings wouldn't be held against her by any landlord with any sense.

This.

Landlords that want a tenant out, for ANY reason, often give good references, regardless.

Simply because they want their property back - a bad reference will mean more delays.

Besides which, he would have to put that she paid the rent well, looked after the property very well, but insisted on her rights...which she's perfectly entitled to do.

She doesn't have to allow viewings, and she has the rights, in law, to stay until the bitter end.

If she's going down the social housing route, most councils actually tell people to stay put until bailiff time - at which point, if they eligible, the council have to assist.

Zebedee55 · 30/01/2023 08:27

TimeToFlyNow · 30/01/2023 08:23

Section 21s aren't issued by the court.

They are passed/approved by the court, to allow eviction proceedings to commence.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 08:28

S21 don’t need to be rubber stamped by a court. You can type them up yourself. I do!

TimeToFlyNow · 30/01/2023 08:29

After the section 21 is up the LL can then go to court to apply for an eviction notice

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 08:29

Zebedee55 · 30/01/2023 08:27

They are passed/approved by the court, to allow eviction proceedings to commence.

Show quote history

No they’re not

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 08:36

Zebedee55 · 30/01/2023 08:30

This doesn’t prove your point at all?

Patineur · 30/01/2023 09:04

JenniferSlopez · 29/01/2023 23:57

Seems you know better than the experts.

Last time I checked, you need to fill out an IPO, send off to county court, and finally issue to the squatters. In the meantime they get to exercise their legal rights to stay. Just like the OP.

Show quote history

You clearly didn't check closely enough, as that relates to non-residential premises.

Patineur · 30/01/2023 09:08

JenniferSlopez · 30/01/2023 00:06

Either way, the fact is that OP knows they want her out and is just using the loophole to stay longer. Why hasn't she called them to check if original agreement is going ahead?

She doesn't know they want her out. They haven't communicated since August. If they wanted her out should have served the required notice which is not a loophole, but the procedure laid down by law.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that if OP just leaves without that notice she potentially lays herself open to being sued for unpaid rent?

Patineur · 30/01/2023 09:18

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 04:23

@Patineur
This isn't a question of OP going back on her word. She was simply asked by an estate agent for access for viewings several months ago

the title of the thread is AIBU To NOT leave rented house when I said I would? … there is absolutely nothing ambiguous in that at all. She’s actually asked if SIBU to go back on her word!

Try reading beyond the heading to her actual posts.

Patineur · 30/01/2023 09:20

emptythelitterbox · 30/01/2023 05:55

Why haven't you contacted them since August to find out what is going on?

Show quote history

Why on earth should she? She knows that she will find out what is going on if or when the LL or EAs make contact and/or when they serve a s21 notice.

You might as well suggest that it is the tenant's responsibility everywhere to keep contacting the LL to ask if they intend to bring the tenancy to an end. I guess it would be one way of ensuring that they do precisely that, if only to stop the constant inquiries.

JonahAndTheSnail · 30/01/2023 09:56

Is the landlord not wanting to try to sell it as a buy to let with a tenant in situ? Seems like this would be the easiest option to begin with. If he's not wanting to do this, from his perspective, he needs to issue s21. Most buyers who are buying a place to live in, wouldn't touch a house that's got tenants living in it as it can be a logistical nightmare to get vacant possession if the tenants refuse to leave.

Crikeyalmighty · 30/01/2023 10:16

@FlairBand put it accurately in a nutshell- it's far better to be upfront know what you are dealing with and plan accordingly and then try and negotiate accordingly if May suits you better- allow viewings etc as he's not likely to get a sale through before March anyway

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 10:21

Patineur · 30/01/2023 09:18

Try reading beyond the heading to her actual posts.

Show quote history

I’ve read all of them as you can quite clearly see from my posts on this thread - why don’t you try reading them? Or would that not suit your narrative.

Both the LL and the OP are being unreasonable here.

She’s clearly said she would go and could have followed up if she was that concerned, he should clearly have served a S21. Why come on here to tell everyone you’re worried about it - if there was nothing to worry about there would be no AIBU.

I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.

JenniferSlopez · 30/01/2023 10:24

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 07:35

LL doesn’t just prove he has sent it, he has to prove his tenant has received it. Which is why it’s the done thing to post it recorded or film yourself posting it through the letterbox. Otherwise it’s perfectly valid to claim you never received your s21.

Show quote history

Do you know this for sure? Because that's not what that landlord forum is saying. They may of course be wrong but I'd be surprised.

The thread was about a tenant who kept saying they'd not free received it, and what was actually happening was that they were deliberately not signing it so the postie had to keep taking it back to depot 'undelivered' as required a signature. The advice was to just send it 1st class as it's the serving of the notice that matters and not whether it was received - eaten by dog, lost, etc, don't matter according to them.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 10:24

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 10:21

I’ve read all of them as you can quite clearly see from my posts on this thread - why don’t you try reading them? Or would that not suit your narrative.

Both the LL and the OP are being unreasonable here.

She’s clearly said she would go and could have followed up if she was that concerned, he should clearly have served a S21. Why come on here to tell everyone you’re worried about it - if there was nothing to worry about there would be no AIBU.

I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.

Show quote history

Many of us don’t see at all how OP was in the wrong.

She said she’d try and move, she’s entitled to change her mind especially when no further contact is made with her.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 10:29

JenniferSlopez · 30/01/2023 10:24

Do you know this for sure? Because that's not what that landlord forum is saying. They may of course be wrong but I'd be surprised.

The thread was about a tenant who kept saying they'd not free received it, and what was actually happening was that they were deliberately not signing it so the postie had to keep taking it back to depot 'undelivered' as required a signature. The advice was to just send it 1st class as it's the serving of the notice that matters and not whether it was received - eaten by dog, lost, etc, don't matter according to them.

Show quote history

If a tenant was refusing to sign a s21 then it needs to be hand delivered.

Sticking a stamp on the letter would not stand up in court if a tenant said they hasn’t received a letter. post does go missing after all.

The delivery thing can be a nightmare, I’ve known landlords try to hand deliver envelopes when the tenants have taped the letterbox shut!! They’ve basically had to sit and wait for them to come out their home, practically throw the envelope at them (and film themselves doing so) telling them it’s a s21 to make sure the delivery is valid.

Patineur · 30/01/2023 10:37

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 10:21

I’ve read all of them as you can quite clearly see from my posts on this thread - why don’t you try reading them? Or would that not suit your narrative.

Both the LL and the OP are being unreasonable here.

She’s clearly said she would go and could have followed up if she was that concerned, he should clearly have served a S21. Why come on here to tell everyone you’re worried about it - if there was nothing to worry about there would be no AIBU.

I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.

Show quote history

So you know that she basically said she would move out if she could. She didn't make any promise to move out. She certainly didn't say she would move out without benefit of a s21 notice and risk being liable for rent.

Patineur · 30/01/2023 10:40

A tenant saying they have not received a s21 during a postal strike period is likely to be believed. When you're asking someone to leave their home as a possible precursor to legal action if they don't, I think it's a pretty strong duty to make sure that they receive all the statutory information.

FlairBand · 30/01/2023 10:44

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 30/01/2023 10:24

Many of us don’t see at all how OP was in the wrong.

She said she’d try and move, she’s entitled to change her mind especially when no further contact is made with her.

Show quote history

Crikey you really do live up to the obstinate bit of your name don’t you.

It doesn’t matter how many times you come on here and say it, people won’t always agree with you.

OP - just phone the agent. Either they’ll give you 2 months notice now, or you’ll be able to find out if things have changed and negotiate something longer.

You have the upper hand as they seemingly haven’t issued paperwork, don’t lose that by being a dick over it honestly, you and your kids just don’t need the hassle. You might find there is actually a straightforward solution and getting this angry was unnecessary.