To NOT leave rented house when I said I would?

[WaitingForLifeToGetEasier]

Been in current rented house for 9 years. Landlord is a company with 30+ properties.

Tenancy is generally renewed every year as LL puts rent up.

Last year, less than 6 months into our latest year long tenancy agreement, an estate agent contacted me out of the blue saying he'd been instructed to sell the property so I needed to agree to a time for them to value and take photos as well for viewings.

I was shocked as LL has not said anything and it transpired that the letting agent has added a 6 month break clause into the tenancy agreement. There had never been one In previous agreements and I wasn't made aware.

I made it clear i was not going to allow anyone in the property until the end of the agreement and if the landlord wanted to sell, I'd leave at that time.

Tenancy is up in early March. I had expected to get a Section 21 in early January but nothing.

We have been looking but properties are either not available anymore or agent doesn't get back to us so have not found a property yet. Rents seem to have gone up £3-400 a month which is going to be impossible.

Not sure if LL is just expecting us to leave or what but I am not intending to leave in early March and will stay as long as possible - await section 21 etc.

AIBU?

….yea, that’s what I said.

The s21 is the notice you choose if you have a non-specific reason for reclaiming your property.

Yea that’s correct.

As for Shelter - yes it is all confusing and I actually cannot stand Shelter as they have been known to give tenants very generic advice about “stay until the balliffs come”. In many areas this is way more detrimental to tenants, who will find themselves ‘intentionally homeless’, than it is to just move when told.

How?

He serves her a s21. She goes, and secures a reference before she leaves because she will need to secure a new property before she leaves

Why wouldnt she get a good reference?

Staying until notice is issued is not the same as staying until eviction.

I’m gonna do an idiots guide to clear things up for when a LL wnTs to reclaim their property from a tenant who has been paying their rent on time

1. LL - in ALL cases - must serve a section 21. This gives the tenant 2 months to vacate the property and find something else.
2. Presuming the tenant will move by the date requested, they should get a reference in the meantime for their next property.
3. If the tenant moves - great. Everyone’s happy
4. If the tenant doesn’t move by the requested date, the LL does not have right of entry. This property is still the home of the tenant and they retain those rights.
5. LL would go to court for a possession order. They can do this the day after the s21 expires ie the day after the tenant should have been out.
6. Possession order gives a deadline anything from 2-4 weeks after the court date.
7. If the tenant STILL hasn’t left by the possession order deadline, once again it’s still their home and they retain tenant’s rights. The LL cannot force them out
8. The LL would then have to get a warrant of possession. Meaning a balliff can evict you and they have legal power too. Normally the deadline is 2 weeks form the court date but these days balliffs are back up and it can take much longer.
9. if a LL decides to report rent arrears to credit agencies, they can, but many don’t bother.
10. If rent remains unpaid the LL will have to claim back in a civil court.

The above also applies for any tenants who have skipped on their rent payments but that would be a s8 rather than a s21 and I think the timings differ ever so slightly (could be wrong).

Not the point I was making..I was replying to poster who said the naysayers were middle class who didn’t know anything about what is what to rent.

my ex and I were also landlords for 5 years up until 3 years ago. Yep, there are new protections for tenants vs 30 years ago,…but my point was to Refutiate the poster I quoted, not the rights of the OP. I agree with posters that say until she receives written notice she needs do nothing.

i have 2 dc in rentals now, they’re both graduates, south of England and on good salaries with partners on good salaries. They can’t afford to buy currently even though eldest is 29 . I have had to step in to back one of dc up with a landlord agency who wasn’t following the law re rights to enter vs their right to enjoy in privacy. So, I am pretty well versed with current legislation. My ex also had to give appropriate notice to our tenant when we split so that he could re occupy his house - and we did that as fairly as we could because we’d had a good tenant for 4 years and appreciated that.

but the underlying insecurity of renting in private sector that is affecting the OP, is no different than it was 30 years plus ago. In rental properties you never know what landlord will do and not do - the fact she’s asked for repairs that haven’t been done is ages old . Private rental is shit for renters, and can be, in worse case, only slightly less shit for landlord when things go bum up. It’s a mugs game. Always has been

You’ve just done an awful lot of solicitors out of their fees for advice 👏👏👏

Now that process might seem totally mental and lengthy, but that’s what it has to be otherwise unscrupulous LLs would take the piss and chuck tenants out by the scruff of their beck for being a day late with rent

I obviously wouldn't make the LL evict me (i.e bailiffs) if I am able to secure another property.

We would certainly be eligible for an extended possession period if it gets to a court order as have two DC classed as having a disability, so would probably be given 6 weeks. Including the 14 day period for defending the possession order that would give us 8 weeks. So 2 months Section 21 then 2 months to court order. Even if no delays and LL gets an accelerated possession court hearing straightaway, it would take a minimum of 4 months from issuing Section 21 not including bailiffs.

Obviously I'd start looking for a new property as soon as the Section 21 is issued because as I've already stated properties are available immediately or in a few weeks so no point until then.

It wouldn't be helpful to the LL to give a bad reference affecting my ability to secure another property so we had to go down the court route!

Of course my mistake not going through most recent tenancy renewal with a fine tooth comb but didn't think I had to

Sadly yes, that was a mistake. I'm the first to agree these blasted forms are a pain to go through, but when it involves your home it really is that important

The point still stands though - if you haven't been served notice then you don't have to leave. Very little of this is simple, but at least that bit is

I forgot to add associated costs:
S21 - Free!
Possession order - £355
Warrant of possession order - £130
Balliffs (separate to a court charge) - it depends but generally no lower than £450

If a tenant didn’t get out in time then you can sue them for those costs but this is rarely fruitful (tenants move on, ignore letters, have no money to pay, unenforceable etc) and LLs generally accept the hit on their wallet.

@TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl

I have no idea. I'm a tenant not a landlord and the laws only came in in December.

Once again, SHE IS NOT MAKING THE LANDLORD EVICT HER. She is just not moving out until she has been served notice to do so.

They don't legally have to give you a reference at all. If you had refused viewings and refused to move out at the end of your tenancy (resulting in me having to serve a section 21) then I would give you a negative reference (because it has to be factual).

Don’t tell me you’re a LL?!

How do you give notice if not through a s21?

Tenants exercising their rights is a ridiculous reason not to give a reference.

Why do you think the OP must move out at the end of the AST? Why do you think it won't just revert to a rolling tenancy?

If you refuse to leave then the LL can get a court judgement to evict you.

Then he'll refuse to give you a LL reference; any new Agent/LL will see your public court record , and the combination will make it very, very hard indeed to ever get another tenancy.

It would be far, far better for your own sake, to leave on time, get a good LL reference, and be able to show a long and blameless record as a tenant. THat makes you more attrartive to other agents and LLs.

You are doing an amazing job of explaining how tenancies and S21 work. If some of the people you are explaining to are LLs I feel very sorry for their tenants.

"theobsinategirl" Landlords have legal challenges too. They have to be truthful when giving references or they could be sued. You are a tenant and giving your perspective but what you are trying to encourage the OP to do may not be in her or her families best interests. Hope all goes ok for you OP.

But how is OP refusing to leave when she hasn’t been asked to leave?

READ THE THREAD!! The OP is not refusing to leave. The OP has not in fact even been given notice to leave. When the AST expires in March it will revert to a rolling tenancy and the OP will just continue to pay rent until she or the LL gives notice. She does not have to move out at the end of the AST.

So you'd give a negative reference to a tenant of 9 years who'd paid rent on time without fail, looked after your property and left it in excellent condition despite you not doing the minimum required maintenance on the property?Therefore making sure that tenant couldn't find a property to move into so they couldn't move out of your property and you'd have to spend time and money getting bailiffs in?

😂 Not got much sense have you?

He can only go to court if he gives her a date to leave via a a section 21 and OP refuses to comply with that - which isn’t what she’s proposing to do.

At the moment he hasn’t given her a date to leave.

"Richard" Because of the Break Clause.

I’m actually a LL, so I know what I’m talking about. I take it you aren’t one? No idea why you thought I am a tenant.

If I ever read a reference that said “I wouldn’t rent to this person because they didn’t let me in for viewings and they didn’t move out even though I didn’t give them I date” if think “Lol what a fucking weirdo”, offer my commiserations to the tenant and hand them the keys providing the passes other checks from non-thickos. Perfectly acceptable and reasonable to not allow viewings and LLs expect this. I prefer for a tenant to be out anyway when I show my property because you can see the potential more with an empty room.