To NOT leave rented house when I said I would?

[WaitingForLifeToGetEasier]

Been in current rented house for 9 years. Landlord is a company with 30+ properties.

Tenancy is generally renewed every year as LL puts rent up.

Last year, less than 6 months into our latest year long tenancy agreement, an estate agent contacted me out of the blue saying he'd been instructed to sell the property so I needed to agree to a time for them to value and take photos as well for viewings.

I was shocked as LL has not said anything and it transpired that the letting agent has added a 6 month break clause into the tenancy agreement. There had never been one In previous agreements and I wasn't made aware.

I made it clear i was not going to allow anyone in the property until the end of the agreement and if the landlord wanted to sell, I'd leave at that time.

Tenancy is up in early March. I had expected to get a Section 21 in early January but nothing.

We have been looking but properties are either not available anymore or agent doesn't get back to us so have not found a property yet. Rents seem to have gone up £3-400 a month which is going to be impossible.

Not sure if LL is just expecting us to leave or what but I am not intending to leave in early March and will stay as long as possible - await section 21 etc.

AIBU?

My point is it doesn’t exist. You’re inventing your own legal process. But then you seem to think the law is but one option of many.

Where does OP say it was an informal chat? She doesn't specify how the agent contacted her, but if he outlined the break clause was being invoked in an email, that was the LL giving notice.

The only way to invoke a break clause is

1. for LL to issue a s21 2 months before the date
2. for tenant to give their notice to quit a month before the date

If neither of these things happen, the break clause is not ‘invoked’.

Do you REALLY think the OP is in a good position to leave based on one unrecorded chat 6 months ago that has never been re-addressed? Do you think the LL fully expects no rent after February and to be able to walk into an empty home saying “Ah good! She remembered!” 🤣

She said the agent called her.

The LL HASN’T given notice. That can only be done by issuing a s21, not having a chat, informal or otherwise.

Do you understand?

I'm not disagreeing with you! But WaitingForLifeToGetEasier didn't say it was a one-off phone chat!!! Everyone's assumed that. I'd be amazed if the agent of a professional landlord didn't put them wanting to evoke the break clause in writing!

I don’t think they understand 😁

Just because the LL has a lot of properties doesn’t make them nasty and money grabbing. It’s their business and maybe they need to sell for financial reasons.
it was up,to you to read the agreement before signing and see the six month break clause which is quite normal for assured short hold tenancies. You await a section 21 and this will enable you to get on the council list so you won’t be homeless. Perhaps get in touch and ask the landlord

I would just get ready to move if I were you. Hope you find somewhere

Show me the line where OP said the agent PHONED her. She said he CONTACTED her.

Also: all these gibbering wrecks saying call the estate agent to check you aren’t being kicked out “I couldn’t live like that with that kind of worry”.

If they didn’t serve a s21 by early January, they haven’t had enough time to serve her notice in town for the break clause. Even if she did ask them - it’s too late now to them to go head with it in time for early March. It would be the world’s most pointless phone call.

I didn't say the op was 'wrong'.
She asked for OPINIONS - Am I being unreasonable?
I answered her question that yes, in my opinion, she is; as did many other posters.

*in time not in town

What date do you think OP was informally given to leave the property?

She wasn’t given a sate in August, simply told that there was a break clause and that the LL wanted to sell.

March is when the regular 12 month tenancy is up, but the law is clear that the end of an AST contract term is not presumed to be a requirement for a tenant to quit. The contract automatically becomes a rolling month to month tenancy and the landlord can then issue a S21 at any time to provide the tenant with the statutory notice to quit.

OP informally told the agent she would move in march if the landlord still wanted to sell. But that’ doesn’t mean that OP has to leave the place with no notice if they don’t come back to her until Feb 28th saying the LL still wants to sell. She’s still reasonable to expect the regular notice the law requires.

She’s made it clear she hasn’t had a s21and that she’s had no more contact since August.

How is she being unreasonable? For not leaving a home she hasn’t been asked to leave?

It doesn’t matter if it was on the phone or by letter. Telling her the landlord wants to invoke the break clause does not give the OP notice to quit. They still need to provide her with a date for quitting, which has not been mentioned at all. And to be within the requirements of the law they’d have to issue a S21.

Just to clarify, no break clause enforced. Tenancy was renewed from last March to this March (was that really not clear?).

I was contacted by a random EA last August, 5 months into new tenancy, telling me the LL wanted to put the property on the market straightaway and wanted access for valuation and viewings. I responded that I had a 12 month contract so what we he on about. He said LL had a 6 month break clause in current tenancy and wanted to sell now. I told him to sling his hook, LL got arsey and I said I wasn't allowing access but would try to move out by end of contract (this March). Nothing more said.

I had read previous contracts and no mention of a break clause before as usually used for new tenants in case there were issues at the beginning of tenancy. No reason to put one in for a long-standing tenant as been there for years with no issues. I didn't even push for essential repairs or maintenance (apart from front door) as worried about LL giving notice so did most myself. Hence having to wait 2 years for something expensive that the LL agreed he was responsible for then leaving it.

Of course my mistake not going through most recent tenancy renewal with a fine tooth comb but didn't think I had to. Just checked dates and rent amount. It was 30 pages long! LL obviously sneakily put that in as he had intended to sell during the new tenancy period but should have been honest about that before renewing rather that blindsiding me with an estate agent contacting me with no preamble.

That was disgusting behaviour not me staying on until I'm given legal notice to quit!

FWIW OP, I totally agree with you.

Mass landlords are greedy and absolutely shouldn't be profiteering off property the way they are. Its legal, but it's morally corrupt.

I'm sorry you're in this situation. A friend of mine is in a similar one currently and I have nothing but empathy for the stress these landlords are causing.

There needs to be much more regulation. There's no good reason for mass landlords and it definitely has caused lack of secure housing for millions of families. It's shameful. Unfortunately, it won't change as many of our politicians, and their funders, have a lot to gain from it.

Chin up and keep doing what you have to do to give your family a roof over their heads.

Prime example of why you shouldn't post every question in AIBU 😁.

I said I wasn't allowing access but would try to move out by end of contract (this March). Nothing more said.

Ah, so you've told them you'd move out. That's why they haven't served the S21, they think you're going willingly once the contract expires. Once they realise you've changed your mind, they'll issue it then. So hold fire until it arrives.

Well, there's not much point unless you can produce some sort of reason for saying that, is there?

Thought I’d look up break clauses as there’s been a lot of contradictory views
Lots of attachments
Nothings ever simple is it

OP I would check with shelter, maybe the way the agreement is written they can enforce you to leave at the date of the break?
If they have emails with you not allowing viewings but saying you’ll go in March that might be proof enough they’re enforcing the break clause?
All sounds very messy. If you plan to rent in the same location I would also be making plans to move, presumably the estate agents will get the commission from the sale and be annoyed it’s all delayed… so they might give a heads up you’ve been difficult to other letting agents then you might really struggle to find somewhere.

I doubt they are relying on a tenant saying they will “try” and move out at the end of the lease. That’s not a reasonable sort of statement to rely on, especially not without any other communication for 5 months, and it doesn’T oblige OP to move when it’s inconvenient.

No S21, no need to move, end of.

I'm a landlord.

Agree – unless OP did put it in writing she'd move. She still hasn't said if the contact with the agent in August was by letter/email or phone. The fact she hasn't makes me suspect it's the former. If she put in writing she would move before March, it's not unreasonable of them to think she will, although as you say they shouldn't rely on it. Nonetheless, she needs to stay put until the S21 is issued.