To think mixed sex toilet provision has proven to be a flop?

[BlooDeBloop]

Now been a few years since mixed sex toilets have been widely available in all kinds of public spaces from schools to offices to theatres. The water has been tested. AIBU to think the results have been dismal?

I'm prompted to post this as my Y7 boy holds on all day at school as the toilets are filthy. His friend has seen a girl sitting on a toilet. My younger daughter won't use the toilets in a burger chain because adult men have used it or may come in behind her. I had the same experience in a pizza chain restaurant (one neutral, one disabled, one male I kid you not). Art centre I use had one mixed sex toilet that is filthy and everyone uses the public toilets outside on the street that are separate sex still.

I'm told mixed sex toilets are now widespread in secondary schools. How is that being received? Haven't some schools reverted?

Seems to me a major issue is human biology. Men find urinals easier than toilets. Women need sit down facilities and sinks to wash in private.

@BlooDeBloop I do actually have a husband and a son. As well as a daughter.
Any cleaner will tell you that there are (disappointingly) a large number of girls and women who leave the toilet in a disgusting state.

I'm.happy to be corrected on this but i.believe its a legal requirement at least some where like schools, where for safety reasons the door must he able to be opened from the outside should there be an emergency.

This however means that anyone with a coin or hair clip or whatever can theoretically open said door from the outside and situations where someone was seen sat on the toilet can arise.

I agree, my 15 year old holds on all day and drinks less so they don’t have to use the school toilets. Not healthy. And yes, various parents have spoken to the school about the problems.

Yes, this. Old style single sex toilets worked perfectly fine, but have a third space option too.

Oh so your son and daughter are equally filthy in the toilet? I'm sorry for you. In my family, there is a clear difference between toilets (we have three, my daughter won't use the toilet my son uses and I clean them all so I know who is creating the mess). In my extended family it is exactly the same pattern. My sister had to change the carpets of her toilet when the boys were 8 or 9 such was the constant lack of hygiene. It is wrong to state there is no difference between the sexes. Willfully blind, I'd say.

I think mixed sex toilets in schools especially, are very wrong. I know of girls very distressed, especially when on their periods, at boys coming in and gawping, making crude remarks, and even assaulting them. They shouldn't have to put up with it. What on earth made them think it would work. All about upsetting women and taking away their rights.

@BlooDeBloop - no, in my HOUSE they are equally clean. Neither leaves a mess.
I went to a girls school and I am telling you there were students who left the toilets in a disgusting mess.
Cleanliness isn't gendered behaviour. It isn't sex based behaviour. If men are telling you aiming is difficult it's because the ones you know can't be bothered!

It is a disaster. We need to go back to single sex toilets.

I went to a theatre show recently which had mixed sex toilets, and a male attendant, at the end of a dark corridor. I felt quite uncomfortable.

As expected the toilets themselves were gross, with pools of pee on the floor. I had on a long skirt and had to be very careful to make sure it didn’t touch the floor.

Later on I went to the toilet again and one man was in a cubicle with the door open, standing up urinating - he obviously was used to urinals and saw no need to close the door, even though the main area was full of women who could see him.

Really unpleasant.

I know that women can be messy too, but in my experience mixed sex toilets are much dirtier and smellier than women-only.

It's funny as I went to a mixed sex school in WC area and I never remember urine on or around the toilets, not in any systematic way. The girls vandalised the toilets, yes. But they were relatively clean from my memory. But then we had single sex toilets...

I do have a theory. Puberty has basically become fetsished. The distress around puberty especially periods is obviously very real no one likes it its embarrassing but it was something we all just got on with..however these days we appear to be creating a self fulfilling prophecy. Making sure puberty is as horrific as possible. Kids being told that sone are suicidal /self harming because of it. That the reminder of reality is traumatic. That mixed sex toilets where no one has to face the reality is the way to go because it makes life that little bit easier for those struggling kids. But in turn all the others are Made to feel awkward and embarrassed and given the extra layer of distress of having to deal with it with members of the opposite sex.

There are some of the late transitioning adult male activists who use the distress of these children as leverage in the campaign for life altering treatment at an early age.

It seems to me to basically be insurance. Create an awkward hostile environment for these body changes to occur to ensure a choir of distressed confused embarrassed and traumatised children mamy of which will then very obviously want to attempt to identify out of it all and whos trauma can then become " evidence" for the need of lobby groups who can then convince even more people we all need mixed sex toilets and to not divulge that periods happen.only to girls etc and that its all optional.

I went to newish build restaurant yesterday, floor to ceiling cubicles opening onto a corridor, so clearly set up to be GN. All with 'male' or 'female' beautifully written on in chalk.

And as far as I saw while I was there, everyone stuck to that, because most people are happy with separate sex provision.

I do think there is a ground level push back, where power sits with customers. Unfortunately schools don't have that.

Well this is my gripe. Are teens being trained into accepting mixed sex toilets that everyone else thinks are crap? Why the push for GN toilets? Is it purely a space issue?

True, although there was in America that ‘trans’ male teen who identified as female and raped a girl in the female toilets and a teacher came in during the rape and saw that there were two sets of feet in the toilet cubicle and the teacher just left again.

Was that the same.one where they knew the male child had form but they allowed it anyway then threw the obviously ape shit dad of the victim out the school as if he was the problem?

The mixed toilets in our school work. They're anti bullying so basically along the corridor, set back but open plan so the kids can't get followed in as all the doors are visible to everyone walking by.

I'm not for mixed toilets in enclosed rooms. Bad idea.

The push for mixed-sex toilets comes from LGBTQ+ activist groups, who are desperate for validation (aka dominance) and ferocious in most schools / public sector organisations, where the leadership is too weak or too fuzzy to resist the shrieks of ‘transphobic’ at anyone who won’t be bullied.

Yes that’s the one. The media demonised the dad for being unhappy that his daughter had been raped at school.

Are people actually claiming that there's no difference between men and women's toilets? Walk past the men's toilets in pubs/theatres, even shopping centres and you can smell them. There's areas of the country were teens are out of control. It must be horrible to be a unpopular/bullied girl in many schools. I was in Macdonald's last night with my young female GC. There was a booth in front with girls in. A few boys 12-14 came in and then the girls were subjected to 'fish', 'dog' etc comments (just not bad enough to be asked to leave). The girls ended up leaving and them laughing. I see it constantly, on the bus etc. Girls need safe spaces.

I think they can work if done well. I have different experiences. My swimming pool changing room is mixed sex but interestingly with the communal changing room there are single sex toilets. My office has mixed sex toilets cubicles and they are ok. Not too bad on the cleanliness and the doors are floor to ceiling. In another of our offices they are better. They are all very swish but crucially offers an option of single sex. So those of us that don't mind can use any but for others they can use single sex.

What is the driving force behind mixed sex, is it financial?

What happens in other countries? Are there any that do it well?

The schools response has been to minimise the incident. Kids aren't as safe in schools as we were. All these things add up to make them less safe places.

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2023/01/26/kent-teen-stabbed-at-school-by-pupil-teasing-her-hair-colour-18171959/amp/

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet, but there are porn sites dedicated to hidden cameras in toilets too. Mixed sex toilets would make it very easy to hide cameras as men would no longer be conspicuous in 'The Ladies'. Previously they would be considered acting suspiciously but that kind of thinking makes you a bigot now; where's the safeguarding? We have to advocate for our girls. It's not right, most of us are uncomfortable, imagine how much worse it is for teenagers.

Now I can see the open plan aspect is great for the reasons you give. I'm less keen on CCTV in school. Are mixed sex toilets for behaviour reasons or space or something else? There is nothing stopping single sex from being open plan if that's what is deemed desirable.

What happens in other countries? Are there any that do it well?

You have just exposed the conundrum. Many countries there are charities that campaign for single sex provision so girls can attend schools safely and not get raped.

Westernised countries like the uk and us well western males are not like the others and must have access to little girls peeing.

Its actually pretty racist tbh .

We have them in our local student union although I'm not a student anymore. They were well used when I was there, all cubicles. I haven't seen them anywhere else.