To park in one of hundred of disabled spaces where there isn’t a single P&C space?

[MickeyMouseShithouse]

I have two children in car seats and I struggling getting them out in one particular multi storey car park local to me. The thing is, this multi story has hundreds.. hundreds(!) of disabled spaces that the majority of are always empty, but not a single parent and child space for a shopping centre?!

Its started to effect my anxiety and puts me off going there but it’s really the only half-decent place I can get anything locally.

WIBU to park in a disabled spot? Not even one close to the entrance, just any of them!

or who do I contact to question why there aren’t any p&c spaces?

it’s so frustrating, I can’t imagine there are a couple hundred disabled people going shopping to the same shopping centre in the same day.. but I can imagine there are are least 1 family with a car seat/pushchair!

I'm genuinely confused by people who say that they can't cope without a P&C space. Today my toddler and I have been to:

1. the town centre car park closest to the library
2. the gymnastics club
3. our small local coop on the way home

None of those places have P&C parking. Nor do loads of other places I go regularly - the gym (which is where we going swimming), the local country park, the zoo. I now only have one child with me during the week, but I used to go to all these places regularly with a baby and a two year old and I still go, often on my own, with a four year old and a nearly two year old whenever it's the weekend. Are people really saying that they just wouldn't go to these places? They're all full of parents who do...

Is there a legal requirement to provide disabled parking?

There is no statutory requirement under the Equality Act 2010 to make provision for a certain number of disabled parking spaces either in a building in its construction or during the course of its subsequent use.

Is it illegal to park in disabled bay UK?

The bays are advisory markings only and so no enforcement can take place if people park there without a blue badge. However most motorists appreciate the purpose of the bays and leave them clear for the people who need them.

It would seem that it isn't a legal requirement, nor are you breaking the law if you park in one. Of course that doesn't mean you should!

@nokidshere That is totally wrong.
The Equality Act says that service providers must make 'reasonable adjustments' for people with disabilities. So for private parking operators, this means they must provide disabled parking spaces.
But what happens if someone without disabilities ignores the fact the spaces are reserved for others and selfishly parks in them?
The Blue Badge Scheme, which marks the cars of disabled people out, only applies to on-street disabled parking. If you didn't have a Blue Badge and you parked in an on-street spot a parking attendant could give you a Parking Fine.
But these rules don't apply in private car parks like the ones attached to supermarkets.
Instead the supermarkets have to enforce the parking themselves under contract law but the extent they do this varies from place to place. Some will fine and some will not. If the car park is run by a separate company they nearly always fine.
The advisory disabled spaces only apply to white marked spaces outside someones own home. These are not legally enforceable but exist because someone lives there who is disabled and has been accessed as needing the space.

People need to realise that society is designed for able-bodied people. Disabled people shouldn't have to defend or justify the few concessions that are available to them.

Of course people can cope, it's just easier. I drive a tiny car (Aygo) but it's still easier to get DDs (8 months and 3.5) into the car and strapped in with the extra space to the side. And it means I can reverse in without worrying that I won't be able to get the pram between the cars. If I had a car seat that I regularly took out of the car and put on the pram, I'd need the extra space at the side, rather than it just being a nice bit of convenience.

I would prefer they put half the P&C spaces at the far end of the car park because I don't need it to be close and it might discourage people who are just lazy from parking in them. Still have some closer of course, as I appreciate some people need them to be.

@OutForBreakfast Well since the information I posted came from googling council websites clearly it's misunderstood by more than just the people doing the parking.

Christ, the entitlement of some mums is unreal. You’re not having kids out of a martyrish desire to pay everyone’s taxes, nor are you the saviour of the universe for doing so. You had them because you want them, and nobody owes you anything as a result.

If you want P&C spaces you need to go ask the business to provide them. You don’t get to just take something you’ve no legal or moral entitlement to just cos “I’m raising future taxpayers”. You don’t steal nappies from the supermarket and justify it cos kids are expensive and your kids are the future, do you?

I realise it’s confusing that disabled people not only have sacrosanct spaces but also can use the P&C spaces without, oh my gosh, doing anything as altruistic as having babies. That’s because they have a legal need which you do not. If you want to establish yourself a legal need, lobby your MPs. But leave disabled people alone. Don’t steal their spaces, don’t antagonise them for using “yours”, and for the love of God stop assuming that they don’t need them based on you not seeing any of them about when you’re fannying about on mat leave.

This thread has really wound me up, Jesus Christ.

@nokidshere Can you post the link?

100% agree.

Quite right nokidshere
Whilst there are only ‘recommendations’ on the % of disabled parking spaces if you’re building or converting a property for office / commercial etc use you will not get planning or buildings regs approval without a reasonable % of disabled parking bays
This can vary depending on the area. Places with more elderly inhabitants for example will need more disabled spaces, hospitals aswell and the planners and building control will insist on this.

You can’t just base it on the 4ish % of blue badge holders.

As architects we always overprovide in order to allow for this and our growing elderly population
Maybe that’s why the OP feels there’s too many spaces.

This.

No. Taking a space that is intended for a disabled person is always morally abhorrent. And you can never guarantee that a 'genuine' (whatever that is) disabled person won't need it.

"The bays are advisory markings only and so no enforcement can take place if people park there without a blue badge."

That is parking spaces outside people's houses.

Try parking in a council car park blue badge space without a blue badge ( or even with your timer not set properly) and see how long it takes before you get fined.

Agree. A poster upthread gave the Metro Centre as an example (and expressed dismay at how difficult it was to park there at Christmas what with all the empty BB spaces). Metro Centre has 10,000 spaces. Even if it had 200 BB spaces, that’d be 2%. An absolutely tiny number.

I don’t think a lot of abled people have a clue about living with a disability, and worse I don’t think they care as long as their lives aren’t inconvenienced.

Very well said!

on street disabled parking ( residential) is for a disabled person who has applied for it.
There must be markings on the ground but also a sign on the property it sits in front of relating to the relevant property.
As such if you park in it without a badge you can be fined
If there’s no sign on the property and only on the road, technically, you can’t be fined.
But different councils treat this issue differently, it’s a very grey area.

Nobody is 'tempted' to do something they consider to be beyond the pale. And that is what helping yourself to disability provision should be - beyond the pale, no excuses. Anyone who is seriously tempted to do this needs to examine their own morals.

Can you imagine if I said I was tempted to use the breastfeeding room in a store if I was tired after a long day at work. People would rightly say I was totally out of order. But when it comes to disabled people, anything goes.

I think you've completely misunderstood what I said. I'm saying that if people have disabilities and either can't find a BB space, or struggle but don't qualify for a BB they should use the P&C spaces if they need to. Their needs justify accessing P&C spaces.

You seem to think that I said the exact opposite of what I actually said.

Sorry - I get it now! 😉😉

That just about covers it. And then some of them have the audacity to complain we are being mean.

Ridiculous.

I don’t think a lot of abled people have a clue about living with a disability, and worse I don’t think they care as long as their lives aren’t inconvenienced.

This, really. All that seems to have gone in from the style of the post is registering what seem to be 'hundreds' of enticing empty spaces and the ones that aren't protected for (in)equality reasons, being annoying 'cause inconveniently full.

It would be nice if there were P&C bays, but as these are mainly in supermarket car parks, this could be because of the large car park management groups that tend to be responsible for those facilities.

Find out who owns and manages that car park, and raise your issues with them. There are legal points about being able to see the responsible company's information clearly, payment liabilities and so on, before you are made to enter the car park, so this should not be difficult. Or get there earlier/ park round the corner where it's quieter and walk with your kids.

I suspect they are all out of town big shopping centres. Metrocentre must have about 10 thousand parking spaces so if it has to be 6% disabled parking there will literally be hundreds of spaces and a lot of them are clustered together in multi-storey on particular floors so it’s really obvious when they are not all in use. I’ve been there many times and I’ve never yet seen them anywhere near all full. Reading some stats online around 4% of the population have a blue badge and since only about half of households have a car it’s kind of surprising they are so often empty. Maybe it’s just that when it’s really busy people with a disability feel less inclined to go to a shopping centre because navigating it while it’s heaving will be challenging 🤷🏼‍♀️ I don’t think it’s a bad thing but I also know people are not lying when they say there are places with loads of empty disabled places because that is one. My work always has a surplus too as we only have 3 or 4 members of staff entitled to use them but have more than 10 BB spaces. They have loads more spaces than staff on any given day in general though as everyone is on 2 days in office & 3 days wfh

@whatkatydid2013 Some places the disabled spaces are really hard to get like at hospitals.
I can quite believe that at mega shopping centres less disabled people go there than able bodied people because they involve loads of walking. Our family would not go there, it would just be too difficult.