To ask how to reconnect better with my 6yo DD?

[MaybeIWillFuckOffThen]

I have two DD, 6 and 2. Youngest is a bit of a handful but very jolly. Eldest is clever, sensitive, highly strung. We used to have an incredibly tight bond when she was a baby/toddler (I freely admit to myself I am a LOT better with the baby stage than the young child bit). She was and still is a mummy's girl.

Things started to slip a bit with eldest when she was about 3.5, probably exacerbated by covid and having to juggle her care at home with our jobs for long periods. I found her becoming really hard work with tantrums, relentless talking and demands, refusal to do anything without an argument etc. She is a lot better for my DP, who SUCKED at the baby/toddler bit (no patience, short fuse, resentment) but is a great parent for an young kid - very steady, very firm, doesn't get his buttons pushed the way I do.

Since DD2 came along, I've really struggled to maintain bond with eldest - the thing we bond over most is her little sister, as eldest is 99% of the time a FANTASTIC sibling. I didn't expect this as she was such a consuming only child, I thought she'd be resentful of losing the limelight but actually she loves her sister and is so patient, so caring.

But of course DD1 and I get almost no 121 time now (partner as I say is awful with the baby stage so DD2 largely falls to me, although this is changing as we approach 2 and she can walk, talk and be reasoned with to some extent). The only time we are alone together is either when DD2 is napping (which is less and less as she gets older) or every other night at bedtime as DP and I alternate the girls.

Unfortunately at bedtime when she's tired her behaviour is so so challenging - loud, wild, extremely physical, lots of climbing on me, banging around, hurting herself on things and then screaming the house down, refusing to go up to the bath, refusing to get out of the bath, refusing to get in her pyjamas, refusing to read her reading book, and on and on so we can never get to the 'nice' part of the evening where we talk, make up stories, cuddle in bed. She talks on an on, doesn't listen, interrupts, and I get frustrated - I try so hard not to but I do.

I feel like all I ever do is scold her, and all she ever does is sulk, shout and complain - it's no fun for her or me and I so so miss being her loving mummy and seeing her happy. I find my interactions with her feel really perfunctory ("how do I deal with this?" instead of engaged and loving, probably because there's always DD2 to contend with as well and also because it's only ever a matter of time, no matter how hard I'm trying to give her what she wants/needs, that she'll blow up and start complaining and everything escalates from there.

HELP, more experienced mums - how do I carve out time for her? When we get time together how do I reconnect? How to head off tantrums without responding negatively and getting into an argumentative spiral?

I absolutely love her, she's such a wonderful kid - I just wish we had more time, and that we BOTH had a bit more fun with each other when we do!

Every other adult in her life says what a sweet, funny girl she is, and I know it's true - just don't know why whenever she's with me her behaviour deteriorates so badly!

Your DH needs to get over his issue with babies, and deal with your 2 year old whilst you interact with your eldest. Can you find time at the weekend to do a family activity where your DH deals with your youngest and you deal with your eldest? Even if its just going for a walk, I find that's a good time for chatting with my eldest whilst my DP chats with my youngest.

You have a DH issue.

Ha you could have just described my situation apart mine are 1 and 5…goes up and down with 5 year old sometimes she’s great but other times wild and I can relate to the wild behaviours at bedtime! Only thing I can suggest is, as you say carving out time. I put aside a weekend afternoon to do something just me and her eg swimming, cinema and leave the baby with DH.

He does, but our reality is we all have things we're good at and less good at and he really struggles with babies/toddlers whereas I find them easy. I similarly struggle with things like long-term budgeting, forward planning etc. Both of us can do these things if we have to, but not well and not happily, so we tend to divide tasks to the person best suited. The downside is as you say the 'relieved' party becomes deskilled, while the 'responsible' party starts feeling ownership and wants it done 'their' way or not at all. So it isn't a perfect solution!

He will take on the toddler if I ask him to, but if I'm around she'll just keep making a beeline for me so I get interrupted and he's not great at recalling her without it becoming a terrible stressful screamfest.

I do try to take oldest out by herself (mostly swimming, which she loves) but usually when littlest is napping so DP gets a break. We do have a good time then but all the admin (getting out the door, getting undressed, dressed, undressed and dressed again, the inevitable argument when it's time to leave the pool, complaining all the way home because the fun bit is over and she's cross about that) makes it a daunting prospect for about 30 minutes' quality bonding!

@Iunderstandit glad it's not just me! I miss her so much, even though she's around all the time :( I miss us being so close, I miss feeling so much joy in her company and feeling like a great parent, I miss her being happy with me all the time. I can only imagine she probably feels similar but doesn't understand what she's feeling exactly and maybe that's playing a part in the behaviour. But the bedtime craziness just when I'm most tired and least equipped to handle it OMG!

Does your 2 year old nap? In the buggy for long periods? If so, take them both on day trips to places your 6 year old will like and your 2 year old can be there but have a nice long nap in the buggy so that you are getting 1-1 time with the 6 year old somewhere fun. Can you take them both to museums and plan lunch and a nap for DD2 at the museum?

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen for what it’s worth I think the hyper behaviour after school/before bedtime is normal from what I’ve heard, and if they can relax around you after behaving at school all day then that shows you’ve actually got a great bond as they can be themeselves around you? Was discussing with some school mums and we agreed that we’d MUCH rather them be wild around us and push boundaries at home, rather than at school!

Your DH needs to stop making excuses.
But, more helpful suggestions - do bath time and PJ's earlier in the evening and then do the chill/relax, watch TV part, so bedtime is just teeth and reading.
Natural consequences. Won't get into bath? Fine, no bath (really won't hurt to miss the odd one). Won't get out? I used to just pull the plug out during the bath so the water ran out. Not fun sitting in the bath with no water. If she outwits you and puts the plug back in, fine, but this is eating into reading a story time. Your choice. There's no argument or conflict. Just choices.
All behaviour in children is communication. I think you know this is attention seeking behaviour. Even negative attention is better than being ignored. She knows she has your attention for this period of time.

I don't necessarily think you have a huge Dh problem.... it does sound like there are areas he could improve, but, as you say, you work well as a team, complimenting each others shortcomings..

from experience, it is very easy in these situations to get similarly frustrated and focussed on curtailing the behaviour, but if you start focussing on the principle that behaviour is communication, look at how you can try and understand the reasons for the behaviour... it's unlikely to just be being 6....

doing that can be frustrating as it involves perseverance in the face of all the challenging behaviours you have described, but often the discussion with the child about the "why" rather than the "what" of it can be more rewarding.

also don't forget that you are likely trying to do all this at the end of the day, where everyone is likely a bit tired and fractious and sometimes, you just need to say "i'll come back in 5 minutes" rather than trying to push along a routine (just guessing) that has maybe worked for 6 years, but now needs to flex a bit....

You ascribe her behaviour to the presence of her younger sibling, but tbh a lot of what you describe could well be happening without having a younger sibling around.

The stuff you talk about regarding the swimming is just pretty normal 6 year old behaviour. There are strategies for dealing with these things to reduce the conflict and whinging, maybe try disregarding the blame towards the younger sibling and just focus on ways to manage your 6 year old's behaviour. So, when it's approaching time to leave the pool give plenty of notice and reminders. Schedule something fun to do afterwards, like getting a drink in the cafe or something similar. When driving home, engage her in chat about something she's enthusiastic about, or sing songs together... etc etc

DD2 will nap but not if she's out - I think she's getting ready to drop it tbh, she has gone without it when we're out and about as she is just too into everything, and although she's very tired by the end of the day she can make it, getting harder and harder to get her off to sleep even at home or in the car. Will miss it when it's gone!

Your DH needs to step up and take the little one. You just don’t get to decide a particular age of child is too hard and abdicate your responsibility. We all find different ages easier or harder but as a grown up you just get on with it and do your best. He needs to take the little one out so she’s not interrupting you, whether that’s swimming, soft play, a walk, to Tesco or whatever, but for the sake of his relationship with your DC2 as well as yours with DC1 it’s important. It’s not like dividing tasks like who empties the bins or plans the budget, it’s relationships in your family!

This is very true - same with youngest, nursery tell me they don't know they have her she's so good and I'm like "....umm... you are talking about MY DD, right?" as she's a little menace at home! Much rather they unleash the beast at home I suppose :)

I remember wondering where all the words came from when DD was 6. The chatter was relentless!
She is also tired and frazzled from school - Iunderstandit makes a really good point - children do sometimes behave their worst at home because it's their safe place and they trust you. They are still learning emotional regulation and sometimes it expresses in ways that are not great to be around.

You have a DH issue. Skirt around that all you want but if he's not capable of spending a few hours with his child so that you can take the other child out in a nice fun way then what chance do you all have? Whether he's "good" at it or not! If you weren't good at it what happens then? No one bothers with DD2 they just leave her to her own devices because neither of you are "good" at it? Sorry to be harsh but I think you know what your issue is here!

I di do this - I hate arguing so anything that we can skip, I just say 'fine, let's move on to x'. But DD can argue with herself in an empty room so all the 'choices' are just met with screaming abdabs rather than progress! And it's then I find myself reacting as I just feel like I can't do anything right for her unless I let her stay up all night talking!

It is attention-seeking. I just wish I could find what the 'positive' attention is she wants as it feels like no matter what I do we still wind up with tantrums!

In that case either get DP to take DD2 or just take both of them on the day trip and make the most of it.

Also try to find time to read just with DD6 in the evenings, books suited to her age. Make sure she reads to her book to you every night so that she feels important, valued and listened to. If she does not have enough books at the right level, go to the library and order books at her reading level (they are usually in specific coloured bands at that age, and you can often order them online once set up). She will know you are doing it just for her, not her sibling.

Just do things with her but keep it simple and at home.

So I used to let me DD make face masks for me...she'd mix up porridge oats and a bit of banana, milk and honey. Then she'd slather it all over my face and cut up some cucumber for my eyes. She thought it was hilarious.

Or you could play a game like Uno together.

Or treasure hunts round the house with rhyming riddles as clues. So maybe something like "you like to read so have a look, you're next clue is in your favourite...." and then she has to guess book and find the next clue. If you think she won't "get" that yet, then just simple ones like "your next clue is in something you wear on your feet for school". Do about 12 clues and then in the last hiding place she can find a small chocolate bar or whatever. Lots of praise on the way about how she's clever for working the clues out etc.

Or obstacle courses, so lay out a load of cushions on the floor and you both have to jump over and round them, or do a silly dance at a certain door, or walk backwards round a certain chair, both do a forward roll or star jumps at a certain place, or have to crawl under your dining room table etc. Just whatever is to hand that you can use as an obstacle.

Or baking.

Good luck.

And it's then I find myself reacting as I just feel like I can't do anything right for her unless I let her stay up all night talking!

I think your own judgment if yourself here isn't helping, it's just stressing you out. You are doing stuff right for her, you're calmly getting her ready for bed. Ultimately you can only control your own behaviour, not hers. Doing stuff right and doing what she wants are different, so don't come down harshly on yourself if you can't always do what she wants.

Pick you battles, does she bath every night if so maybe drop a couple of nights, cans he bath with you, your other DD. Get her a basic each and give her advanced warnings, at 6pm we're going to?? But at 6.30 were be???
When nine the pool give her advced warnings in 10 minutes were getting out, in 5 minutes were out. Time to get out now. When walking /driving keep her mind active , hoe many blue cars can you see, add the numbers up on number plates, invent stories play would you rather (would you rather be a horse or a unicorn?) Keep boundaries the same and don't change. And stop worrying and enjoy. Try a start chart and if she gets ?? Stars you play dress up with scarfs and kid friendly make up. Just got to be one step ahead and having melt downs is normal also

Sorry, but this made me laugh.
DD can argue with herself in an empty room
🍷might help....

Mine are 6 and 4 but I can remember when youngest was 2.

What do you enjoy doing? If e.g. cooking can you get 6yo to help make flapjacks or omelette while 2 yo plays with raw pasta on the floor? Cam you all eat together foe mealtimes?

Give the 6yo loads of praise for the good things they do so you don't feel you're always telling her off e.g. being kind or letting 2yo use her toys.

Our worse times are when noone has been out the house so we try and get a walk to the shops or anything physical done early in the day

5 minute mum has some good games for e.g. 6yos which don't take ages to set up, might be fun for her
Good luck x

Baking biscuits (quicker than cupcakes for us as you don't really need to wait for them to cook to be iced, doable on a weeknight)
Playing board games/card games - dobble, uno etc
And asking DD6 what she'd like to do with you (but you have to have enough time to carry this out, so be careful when to ask this one)

All of these are things that I've found helped at times.

Divide and conquer is a good approach sometimes but you need to be wary in case your DH isn't 'good' at parenting teens/pre-teens and opts out at that stage too....you're going to have a lot of work on your hands! It's also, not really comparable to sorting out the finances etc. because your bank accounts don't care who looks after them, your children do. You can't just opt out of childcare like you can opt out of dealing with the MOT and there be no consequences for that down the line.

I would do as a pp said and change up the bedtime routine. Firstly, so the hardest bit isn't at the end of the day so you've got a bit more left in the tank/you're not clock watching as much. Secondly, because it's sounds like you're in a routine of her moaning/being a pain and you not enjoying it. Sometimes it needs a big change up to knock those routines/habits out.

With the arguing, ignore as much as possible. It takes two to argue. Ignore or change the subject. When she's refusing to do something I would completely ignore the argument, physically override if possible (e.g pull the plug out of the bath, start putting her PJ's on her etc), whilst talking about something else. For example, if you say 'its time to get out of the bath now' and she refuses, just completely ignore that, pull the plug out, get her towel ready and ask her which story she thinks she'd like tonight or any other chat of that kind.

The other thing I would try is just talking to her about it. Tell how much you love going swimming with her, but you don't like the end when she won't get dressed and is difficult on the way home. Ask her why this is and what can you do to prevent that. Approach it as if you're a team with a problem that needs solving, not a mum moaning at her DD. You might need to give some suggestions and see which ones she thinks would help (having a five minute warning/having a snack after/bringing a warm onesie to get changed into etc).

Chill out time straight after school to decompress - colouring, dancing etc

Agree with moving the evening routine around to remove the pressure points right before bed

I'd also suggest reading "How to Talk so Little Kids will Listen" - twee but lots of really useful tips which will help build connection