Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

@chosenone .. how is it the parents fault if your fellow teachers didn't return enough for a vote?

Unfortunately teachers were the front line face for what heads wanted during the pandemic,many teachers were blamed when the head said they must not teach during the pandemic.

i think parenting and the kids have changed so much and that’s what makes it horrible:

• so many kids with additional needs or behavioural issues
• kids not being patented properly (coming to school in nappies etc)
• social media nightmares all the time for secondary kids
• zero resilience - so many kids with mental health issues. We have a school locally that has a real issue with this. Lots of suicide attempts, running away, eating disorders, gender issues etc.

this stuff ain’t for teachers to deal with

I've often thought there is a way to reduce teachers workload but I'm not sure if in reality it would work?

During covid they had the oak academy. A central system of planning and work that could be accessed.

So much time is spent with teachers trying to create planning, adapt it for pupils with EAL, send, the high achievers and those attaining below expected.

Could we not have a national curriculum that is actually a national curriculum. Centrally planned and differentiated? After all they all take the same sats and GCSEs.

I would be interested to hear of teachers felt this would help reduce workload and be something that would benefit them.

It won't be for long - the number of kids taking weapons into school now.

• Every year there are new goalposts to meet, new lingo, new jargon, new trends and all our planning as to be re-done to follow these. This is NOT optional by the way.
• I want to use my holidays to relax - not work.
• There is no money for teaching assistants let alone EXTRA jobs
• The meetings are about the goalposts mentioned above. My last meeting was about how “differentiation” is no longer en vogue so we now must use the term “adaptive teaching”

👏

Except that former teachers are holding down “proper jobs”. Mine pays a lot 😃

if teaching is such a relentlessly bleak hellscape then why don't you just leave?

erm….teachers are leaving? In their literal thousands. Shortage subject areas are shorter than they have ever been. Some Schools are resorting to whole year teaching in halls in some subjects. Classes are being collapsed so instead of 4 classes of 30, you’ve now got 3 of 45ish. TAs all practically non existent which means the weak or disruptive kids have no support. In some classrooms, teachers spend their whole time managing that rather than the actual teaching.

Is this the education you want for your children?

So perhaps IHT needs to go up from 40% to 50% to pay for higher NHS and teacher salaries? IHT is already tax on money that has already been taxed in many cases. The wealthy are leaving the country according to Telegraph because of high taxes. Already we have highest taxes since 1950s. Perhaps if those public sector workers who use and spend money from taxes were more efficient and intelligent we would not need a new magic money tree for higher salaries. People who create wealth often take great risks to do so (unlike school teachers).

Many, many also do not have unions

You know there are general unions that people in all kinds of jobs can join? You don't have to have a union specific to your job.

You can’t do all your planning that far in advance. Long term and medium planning, sure. But there is short term planning based on what the children are learning in the lesson, so you are constantly adapting your planning. Also, 9-5 would be nice. 7:30-18:30 was my experience because I preferred not to work at weekends
if I could avoid it. Everyone has an opinion on education but most people don’t have a clue. Anyways, I’m one of the many who quit and much healthier for it.

It doesn't really matter what teachers earn, or any of the other professions that are striking. Public sector is no different to private sector - if you can't recruit chances are you're not paying enough. So the teaching vacancies position would suggest that salaries need to rise.

If you think it's money for nothing then train to be a teacher, it'll be worth it. Imagine how awesome life will be when you qualify!

At least most of them have manners and interpersonal skills though, which would be a step up for someone throwing that post out there.

My friend has retired now, but she was deputy head of a large London primary.
She was often working until 9.30 or 10 at night, incredibly dedicated, and was utterly burned out by the time she retired a few years early.

I know 2 other teachers who've taken a drop in pay to be senior TA's. They reckon that when they take into account the hours they actually worked, the hourly rate works out better.

It seems to me that ofsted/government/education high up people need to fuck off. Stop moving goal posts.,

in 1986 I was taught maths by a workbook. We all were. I was taught English by reading Johnny red hat books. It was all very simple.

I didn’t do too badly. I have a decent job and a biosciences degree.

I also left a very stressful adrenaline filled environment to train to be a teacher (not the armed forces) and I found the same thing. I have lots of resect for teachers and they do work hard ( as do plenty of others) but I couldn't see myself doing the job until I retired. I also found it a "slow grind" and agree with the feeling of "head down, plod on, stare at the clock" I felt after a year in 'bored" not because I wasn't working hard but it just didn't suit me. I happily went back to my original job which has many negatives but I'm never going to be bored. But we are all different many teachers said they couldn't do the job I came from in a million years. I do think the regular assessment of performance very tedious and often unnecessary.
Teachers do have a very strong and effective union(s) who have successfully negotiated them some pretty good pay rises in the past and I think they generally are pretty unified speaking with one voice and most seems to be striking which will strengthen their case. They like everyone else deserve a reasonable pay rise in this time of high inflation but I very much doubt there is the money to give them a substantial pay rise or to set a precedent; if teachers get it then all other public sector workers will expect/get it and the NHS is still in negotiation and as it is the 4th or 5th biggest employer in the world the government defiantly doesn't want to have to give them a similar sized pay rise.

I am a female secondary school science teacher and have read a number of threads on here over the years about teachers workload /pay and want to give my own personal experience. (have name changed).

I love my job, the students are mostly wonderful and I enjoy sharing my love for my subject. I am burnt out and counting the years until I can afford to retire.

Since having my own children I have worked 0.4 over three days ( so 2 days spread over 3) in a very nice, successful secondary school as a standard teacher, with no additional paid responsibilities . I do this because it was the only way I could manage the work-home life balance and our family income has taken a massive hit due to this. My husband has a job that regularly takes him away from home for lengthy periods and is thankfully well paid enough for us to manage ( although even he would admit is nowhere near as work-load intensive as mine)

Over my three lunchtimes, I have 1 duty, 1 club and 1 support clinic, so have no lunch break on any day. Three out of four weeks we will have an after-school staff meeting ( year-group, department, whole staff on rotation) and 12 parents evenings distributed throughout the year ( 2 per year group), along with sixth form information evening, options evening, new parent meeting and a few other events, many of which I am expected to attend in some capacity . In addition , I have at least half of my “free” periods taken for cover of other classes or sometimes other duties each week , mostly without much notice so I can never rely on having that time for planning. After school there are also department detention duties on a rotation.

Teaching science is certainly not like an office job. In front of the students it is busy- always. There are classes where you can’t sit down or switch off for even a second, practical work with 30+students mixing chemicals and using Bunsen burners as well as academic content to cover and homework and tests to mark. Lesson plans have to be thorough and adaptable and will need amending even from one class to another in the same week depending on student ability.

For the last five years I have been asked to teach outside my specialism ( not just a different science but totally different subjects) . In order to do this , I have had to familiarise myself with the specification, the assessment process as well as learn the content for myself and plan lessons for mixed ability classes. This has taken hours upon hours of my holiday time. Yes there are schemes of work but I cannot teach a class something I do not know myself.

I work through both my “days off” during the week doing marking , planning and preparation. I work through most of the half term breaks and use family and holiday clubs to juggle this with caring for my own children. This is how I manage to have the weekends off. I simply cannot imagine how anyone in my situation can be full time.

We cannot afford a decent family holiday because my part-time pay and the vastly inflated school holiday prices to which I am tied.

I am considering leaving, I have a masters degree and could probably find a job elsewhere reasonably easily.

I agree with this. Teachers are effectively paid as part time workers, contracted 37.5 hours a week term time only, although the pay is spread between 12 months of the year. The workload is a full time job however, so they have a very high workload during term time.

Why isn't this overhauled so teachers are paid 37.5 hours a week for 52 weeks of the year? Things like report writing, bulk of the planning, displays, parents evening, big team meetings, other admin could all be done in the school holidays which teachers would be paid for. Teaching would effectively be hybrid with in person teaching in term time and home working in the school holidays. 30 days leave, 10 days of which could be taken in term time (30 days is high but compensates for having to take some in school holidays). Pensions brought more into line with private sector to allow a further wage rise, with the added benefit of being able to take the pension earlier than state pension age, as you can do in the private sector. Do wage rise for extra contracted hours bringing teaching up to a full time job, and wage rise for pension adjustments.

Well honestly the pay isn't bad, there are plenty if holidays and the pension is great. Unfortunately the working conditions suck. If the hours were cut to something reasonable and behaviour (parents and children) was sorted I reckon retention and recruitment won't be a problem.

The coy IMissThe80s' "proper job" is in a bank if what they said on another thread is to be believed.

why do you need to do so much planning? Say you teach year 3… isn’t it the same stuff you did the year before? Sure some lessons would be updated etc but surely “great fire of london” lessons for example are gonna need the same resources and planning as the year before. why can’t you use the holidays to do any additional planning? Gathering worksheets etc

every class is different. What works with one will be a disaster in another. All classes have their quirks and intricacies to manage. Worksheets need to be adapted to the needs of the class ‘live’ - it is rare you can find a worksheet online, for example, that will do just what you need it to. It is frequently easier to start from scratch.

We are not paid for holidays. Why should we work in them? I teach languages - I usually teach English to foreign children over the summer.

1. There are so many indiovdual needs in a class now that you plan for that particular class, and have to repeat that every time you teach it. Yes you can use some of the resources but you can't repeatedly pull out last year's. We have all done it in an emergency but you can't sustain it. I only tech year 11 and A Level though, and I really cannot do this. My cohort changes every year and even with the same entry requirements my 6th formers are getting weaker.

Also point 1. Teaching fads and observational demands. What I did 10 uears ago would be unacceptable now. Even 5 years ago. We have a lot of technology and must track performance on a nearly daily basis and respond to it. So I have a starter or connect activity; that is an online quiz that self Marks if multipl3 choice or I mark if open ended. I record the data from each one, each day. For each class. This is then tracked throughout the topic and my lessons adjusted accordingly.

1. Last year I was in the bulding for 17 days of holiday to deal with exam results, data processing and intervention. We are not paid for this. I of course work though thr holidays, but it is not 'worksheet gathering'. Most of it will be marking. We have just finished year 11 and year 13 mocks. I have approximately 20 hours of exam paper marking to do and then the analysis and spreadsheets etc. I have a week to turn that around. As I knew this was coming I have bulk planned my lessons for next week, but that came at thr cost of something else I will have to do on the holiday. Same with any assessment that is needed for next week, or I will work in excess of 70 hours next week.
2. There is no money for admin. We run a breakfast club on donations. I've cleaned more toilets that I think you can imagine this year due to staff toilets.

Also, for you to be able to do my admin I would need you to understand the intricacies of 3 different exam boards just for science. For you to do my behaviour admin you would need to know my students. To do my DSL admin you would need to complete my DSL and safeguarding training and also know my students. Especially the 3 that currently are at risk of suicide. And the self harming ones. And the current list of over 100 students in an at risk register.

None of that is meant to sound flippant. This is my life right now, and I have my own children at home who i barely see. A partner who is unwell and cannot work fulltime, so i have no choice (also a teacher, disabled by covid).I am current sat in my car waiting dor a Dr's appointment as I am having g recurrent nose bleeds. I actually think k this is my body telling me to quit, but I really don't want to leave my school with no chemistry teacher or DSL, which is what will happen as we already have 3 non-science supply in the science department. I am the only actual chemsit left in a school with more than 2000 students.

It wouldn't work as teachers wouldn't be able to play the martyr if that happened.

A good start would be not wasting money on contract for friends.

Not paying 100's of 1000s to store PPE that is useless because their friends actually have no experience and knowledge of what they're doing.

Not avoiding paying tax whilst being the person slashing these budgets.

When money can be found for things they think are important it shows the money is there. What the issue is is they don't value our public sector or services.

How very sad.
Education in the UK is an absolute mess.
I just wish parents knew how tough it is in their children’s schools right now.