Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

I wonder what I would earn in the private sector. My job involves or has recently involved:
complex statistics
producing management returns
programming in Python
creating and maintaining databases
dealing with the public
delivering training, north online and in person
managing a team of staff
modelling and engineering
use of a variety of technical software
supporting people with complex emotional and educational needs
a record of exemplary progress reviews

I’m sure I’ve missed lots of other things. Who else with those skills would tolerate a 12% pay cut in their 40s?

'No sympathy for teachers'

No one is asking for your sympathy for teachers. How about sympathy for kids who are being taught by TAs, non specialists and in ever bigger classes? How about sympathy for kids who are right now sitting in buildings that the government know to be at imminent risk of collapse but won't even publish the details let alone do anything about it? Or sympathy with kids who'll end up like you with no qualifications because there's no money to pay for the support they need to access the curriculum and no one works in those jobs anymore for peanuts and really shit conditions?

Think about it.

This is not about what you think of teachers - though presumably you acknowledge kids need them and the fact there's a critical shortage of them has an effect on education? It's about the fact that the education system, all of the systems for children and families are fucked. But yeah, moaning about teachers is the easier response I guess.

Interestingly, there are probably easily enough qualified teachers to go round, but they simply don’t want to do it any more.

If the government gave a shit, they’d be trying to see what changes they could make in the role, to encourage them all back into teaching. I haven’t seen Gillian K mention that at all. She’s too busy being ‘disappointed’ as far as I can see!

Ok, support then.
The teachers I know personally are not struggling- far from it- nice homes, good cars, lovely expensive holidays abroad, several kids, owning horses! Is it really a bad life if you can afford all that, along with 13 weeks leave a year and still get an excellent pension compared to many other sectors. So what if they have to do extra hours , it’s never been a secret that teachers have to work beyond 3 o'clock. Plenty of people work way above their hours in Stressful jobs, for no more money.

My class size growing up was on average 30 with no TA. I believe children are way more advanced academically and socially than ever before- that’s not an education system failing in my eyes.

Just admit it, it’s all about the money, you just want more. We all want more money. At least in teaching you have the opportunity to progress, or use your qualifications to go into other roles.

There is no progression in my nmw job, and I’ve no ability or means to retrain.

I don’t consider a starting salary of around £26,000 peanuts. Just goes to show what different worlds we live in.

I assure you that students are not way more advanced academically or socially than before. I qualified in 2001 and there has been massive decline believe me or not.

You must know some very senior position teachers or perhaps they're married with a partner who has a well paid job? Or had a very good start and generous parents who helped them buy a house and jump a lot of hurdles?

Me I left home at 16/17 (like yourself I believe?) and lived on estrangement benefit and a part time job in a room in a shared house and tried to keep up going to college but through a combination of trauma stuff, bereavement and being a 17 year old with no supervision or support and lots of distractions that was hard going but I finished one and eventually made it to uni at 2

I'm a single parent with a 15 year old who had to give up the apartment I managed to buy in the midst of a market crisis and haven't owned since. I rent paying extortionate amounts of my part time salary (health issues and single parent and full time would see me in a psych ward if any had beds) on rent and council tax and bills.

I don't have a horse let alone a car.

Do I fit your stereotype?

And again, we're talking about education. About kids like we were having the support and specialists in place to support them and keep them engaged in education even when the shit hits the fan at home. Having enough to teachers to actually run schools as places of education and support and safety rather than dangerous, chaotic, understaffed and underfunded shit holes (with some potentially falling down imminently).

That should say 1 A'level and that I made it to uni as a financially independent student (which just means they consider you to effectively not have parents because you've lived alone since 16/17 years of age). Sorry for any other typos and incoherence I may have missed.

Oh and the peanuts I was talking about was the pay that TAs get hence also leaving in droves and going to work Aldi for more money and a shed load less stress.

Do our worlds really sound so different?

You didn’t say TAs though? I know what a TA earns. I know what a starting salary for a newly qualified teacher earns as well- which isn’t peanuts for someone who qualifies in the early 20s.

Good for you you made it to university with no support- you will be in the minority there though. I left school at 15 with no qualifications. No one’s fault except that of those who should of cared for me but didn’t. But I could never of gone to university anyway.

yes I agree that some teachers may have other financial help or partners with a good income. And single parents will almost always struggle more financially . At least you have options- private tutoring to top up your income.

@swallowedAfly yes our worlds are very different- While you may not of had life handed to you on a plate, you are at an advantage. You have highly regarded and recognised qualification and no doubt many years experience, which gives you opportunities I don’t have.
One of the reasons I never had kids is so they didn’t end up like me.

The pay teachers get is not bad. The issue is the workload. When I was at school teachers arrived at school about 8.30am and left by 4pm. I don't remember books ever getting marked, we did class marking. Teachers unless they were super keen used to work relatively few hours. They do not know, that is the real difference.

And TAs are terribly paid, I have no idea why anyone does this job. I was also aghast that during the pandemic TAs were expected to come in over Easter unpaid.

There is nothing in the talk about strikes about TAs pay. Similarly with nurses no one is talking about the low level of HCA pay. Professionals do not really seem to give a shit about the very low pay of the staff that work with them.

The teachers I know personally are not struggling- far from it- nice homes, good cars, lovely expensive holidays abroad, several kids, owning horses! Is it really a bad life

I'm going to guess here, that their teachers salary is not their only source of income or capital. I don't know any teachers with that lifestyle who don't have partners in well paid jobs, or family money/ inheritance (in the case of the only one I know who owns a horse)

Support staff is very much underpaid in all fields. Of course they shouldn’t get the same as someone who has studied for several years but they still play a vital role and without their help many “professionals” wouldn’t be able to do their job effectively.

@Pinkpantherstrikes have you never tried to get qualifications through evening classes etc

We absolutely do give a shit about TAs pay. But you can't go on strike for other people. It's simply not allowed.

I have, however, heard teachers and union staff on the media mention the shortage of TAs due to them leaving to earn more in Aldi, being a factor in the problems facing schools.

Okay sorry I missed that media coverage but I am glad if people are talking about it.

Seriously, quite apart from valuing their TAs and wanting them to be remunerated properly, the lack of them makes the teachers job infinitely harder, and those children who need that extra support are losing it badly. So it's in our own interests to push for them to be paid better.

If you read my previous posts you will see that I’m not even slightly academic. I struggle with basic literacy and maths- something that’s needed for all jobs. On top of that I have severe anxiety. I have only ever been able to get jobs in factories or driving jobs( which is what I do now.)

Everyones answer to anyone who complains about a mw job is to retrain but not everyone has that ability- Why is that so hard to comprehend.

several kids, owning horses!

How very plutocratic of them. I bet they drink champagne every night at dinner.

fb.watch/irlakwfvFF/
MrP explains!

@borntobequiet yes I expect they do 🙄

People keep going “oh, the problem isn’t the pay, it’s the workload”

Well, the government is doing fuck all about that too. Maybe they should, now that they’re actually deigning to be in the same room as the unions.

I literally said: "there's no money to pay for the support they need to access the curriculum and no one works in those jobs anymore for peanuts and really shit conditions?"

Whatever. Yes I'm so LUCKY that I worked my arse of after being homeless as a teenager and a string of traumatic experiences and that I somehow magically ended up as a teacher. It must be some magic form of privilege I had rather than hard graft, a whole lot of work on my mental health (still rather fucked and I've had long periods unable to work and living on benefits) and getting a degree whilst again working whilst studying. After getting my degree and being pursued by advertising agencies who love my subject and were coming in hard selling to our course I chose instead to train as a teacher because in my idealist little head I could never work for something as corrupt as advertising and pr agencies using the knowledge and skills I'd gained to exploit people.

But I'm a teacher so you automatically hate me. Do you hate Doctors and Lawyers and Dentists and Accountants too? Do you hate everyone given you had a bad start like me?

£36k with 13weeks off sounds great! It not for everyone though. If you need more money, tutoring in the evenings/weekends plus picking up other jobs during school holidays might help.

Teacher jobs clearly have part time hours and the pay reflects that. If you want full time salary, work full time hours like others!

You have the same lesson plans, lesson content and a lot of material is reusable. What is so stressful about your day to day job ? Genuinely asking to understand.