Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

What? You’re saying that a qualified teacher couldn’t hold down a “proper job”? What do you deem as a proper job? I’m honestly baffled by your comment.

Yes, who are these people spouting shit that the unions have got decent pay rises for teachers over the past few years?

Someone on another thread was claiming that teachers got inflationary pay rises.

Where are they getting this bollocks?

Well obviously as a teacher so do I.

I just feel like the amount of time spent trying to tell random members of the public, who for some reason hate us, that we actually do work hard is wasted.

However reasonable an OP is, I find that lots of people don’t listen and tend to just spout rubbish about how lazy we are. It started on page 1 of this thread.

Teachers get dragged into justifying things because people say it’s easy etc.

It’s shit that this is the way it is but whenever I see a thread started to defend teaching I just sigh, because 9 times out of 10 it goes the same way and I don’t know what it achieves.

Are they representative though? I mean you can find twats on the internet on almost any subject can’t you 🤷‍♀️ Everyone I’ve spoken to in real life supports the strike.

Not disputing pay freeze but since 2018 the teachers unions have secured far greater pay rises then any other public sector workers. 2018 3%, 2019 2.75%, 2020 2% 2021 2.75% 2022 5%.
Honestly compare it to other public sectors who were on pay freezes much longer (NHS, Police, civil servants) and have now been given 'generous' increases of 1-2% your unions have done well!
No public sector worker is singing from the roof tops that their pay is wonderful but teachers have secured more then most!

People WANT the job but we can't afford to retrain!

You can get a tax-free bursary to train as a shortage subject teacher. You'll be paid way more to train than you are as a teacher.

Nothing holding him back now then is there?

I think there is almost a vicious cycle with teaching, and people's attitudes towards teachers
A small but vocal minority of people are morons that think teachers work 9-3.30 and do a couple of hours marking a week, and the odd open evening.
(Most sensible people are aware this is very far from the truth)
The myth that teachers have short working hours and are greedy for wanting more pay gets air time.
Teachers (understandably ) get defensive and explain they don't
Then they get accused of whinging.

I definitely couldn't and wouldn't be cut out for teaching (although at 45 I'm paid similarly to an NQt, so it wouldn't make a difference financially) and I have to confess I have rolled my eyes at fb memes with teachers counting down the days til the end of term, or "there ain't no tired like end of term teacher tired" because I think most jobs have really stressful or tiring periods, that's not unique to teaching.

But I don't think the memes and defensiveness would exist if people weren't so dismissive of the teaching in the first place.

There are the same amount of kids with “issues” - or maybe a modest increase. Before, a lot of these kids would have just been labelled “bad” - although I definitely think covid has had an impact on many kids.

And it’s not just the nice, average kids that are struggling. They all are.

I have one class of 25 where there is 6 kids in the class who don’t have any additional support needs (although not all need differentiation) - and it’s just me, no support, because they have the wrong “type” of ASN.

Teachers salaries are pro rated, if you look at what the salary would be if they worked a full year then it wouldn't look low.

I just feel like the amount of time spent trying to tell random members of the public, who for some reason hate us, that we actually do work hard is wasted.

Then don't 🤷‍♀️ The recruitment figures speak for themselves.

What the public do need to know is that the situation in schools is dire. Schools themselves cover up that stuff to put on a professional front to parents.

@NextPrimeMinister
Agree the pay isn't reflective of the workload, which appears immense.
As a non teacher I don't understand the huge amount of individual planning that needs doing. With the curriculum being so rigid, why doesn't it come with a planned schedule too (to save every teacher in the land having to create their own individual ones?). Feels terribly inefficient and wasting valuable teaching resource

Not only that, but I reckon the vast majority of the active teaching - ie the presentation of new content - could and should be left to video resources. You have some primary school teachers who (no disrespect intended) struggled to a B or C in GCSE science/maths now being asked to introduce concepts with great clarity and precision - while meanwhile YouTube and elsewhere is nowadays awash with experts in their fields making fantastic, brilliantly produced content about exact same. Of course it would need a big investment to begin with, but the working hours it would save would be mind boggling. Teachers can then focus on aiding learning, answering queries, and marking.

Then why isn't there a mass exodus from the private sector into teaching?

I thought about teaching. I think I’d like the actual teaching work and kids. Wage is ok and I could certainly live on it fine. Holidays seem good from an outside point of view.

BUT
things that put me off would be the training. I’ve got three kids so couldn’t afford care for them at 7:30 whilst I drive to school miles away. Would I be back by 6pm? Probably not.

the bad feedback about teaching also puts me off. And the poor parenting and poor Behaviour from kids.

I know a lot of people who've been in your shoes. Maternity leave/divorce etc are often the triggers as you realise that there is more to life than coping with work at 120% with absolutely no reserve left when you go home and waking up again filled with dread for the coming day...
I don't think you'll regret it. I hope you find something you enjoy instead

Decent education benefits the entire society. I have no idea why it’s not better funded.

or for the twat poster up thread better regarded

but I reckon the vast majority of the active teaching - ie the presentation of new content - could and should be left to video resources.

Passively watching a video versus active teaching with checking for understanding, adapting to how the kids are understanding the content and questioning to check they get it, and you'd not only go for the first, but think it's preferable?

Shutting Ofsted down and ending micromanagement of teachers would improve retention and job satisfaction greatly.

Decent education benefits the entire society. I have no idea why it’s not better funded.

Because, despite its levelling-up lipservice, our government cares far more about tax-free private schools than state education.

@Twillow No I don't? Explain to me the irony of how more people are going to go into teaching even on a higher salary if the actual job is rubbish? More teachers/higher salaries won't take away parents being on the phone demanding little Johnny not having a detention, or arsehole teen Sally throwing chairs at you, or your SLT not being supportive, or your workload out of school hours, in my opinion.
I'd be interested to hear how a higher salary will change those things

Threads like this really infuriate me - not the OP because I am totally behind them but the sheer lack of intelligence in SO many posters. I absolutely despair that these are the people that currently vote in this country.

When it comes to teaching/nursing/medicine, there are thousands of unfilled vacancies up and down the country. They cannot attract people to come train to work in the profession and those they do manage to attract leave after very few years in the job. In the case of teaching, they have provided bursaries, increased starting salaries, provided endless assistance in supporting training and yet the majority still leave within the first few years of being qualified. This is the biggest, loudest, clearest alarm that something is not right with the job. Whether those of us working in another sector believe the salary is plenty is irrelevant, whether we believe the job is easy is also irrelevant and same goes for our view on pensions. If the job ticked all these boxes, there would be a strong healthy workforce with good staff retention.

These are jobs which are absolutely critical to having a functioning society. If you genuinely do believe they get so much money for so little work - GO JOIN THEM!!!! Don't whine about lack of private sector pay rises as a reason for not rewarding them. The fact that you are not considered to be important enough to your employer to be rewarded more generously makes no difference. Don't tell them to find another job - most of them already have done that. The few that are left care so much but there is only so much more battering they will take. Then what is your solution? Reminder: There is no queue waiting to replace them. Are you so dense that you can't see the crisis we are in

We need to attract the brightest and the best into these roles. We need to retain those with many years of valuable experience. These are the people that shape our future society. I just cant understand how the importance of these roles cannot be seen

@Obbydoo

We need to get discipline back into schools and find ways to allow teachers to teach.

The behaviour/level of discipline in schools is basically just a microcosm of the area in which they are based. Hence why nice/affluent areas generally have very good schools and vice versa.

Of course governments much prefer to say “schools and teachers need to up their game in order to fix the problems and ills of modern society” as opposed to “we need to fix the problems and ills of modern society, and then we’ll have more positive and productive learning environments for our children”.
Now why could that be?

But the biggest red flag for me is that they all said it was just a boring environment- both from an adrenaline perspective, but also their interactions with the fellow teachers. A slow grind, was how one described their working day. Head down, plod on, stare at the clock. Though apparently the kids could sometimes be hilarious, though mainly not intentionally. But not anywhere enough to offset the overall feeling of ‘meh’.

So that was mainly the reason I didn’t seriously consider a job in teaching.

@DomesticShortHair I think all you are doing here is highlighting the fundamental problem with the whole premise of the Troops to Teachers scheme, or similar. Teaching is not a job you do because you want to be warm and dry, or work shorter hours.

It's exhausting, challenging, and needs 100% commitment. The reason so many people do it, is because they love their SUBJECT, are passionate about teaching children and get a real sense of achievement seeing the next generation excel in a subject they feel really strongly about.

I can see that if you got into teaching for the wrong reasons it would be all of the negative things you describe, but good teachers do it for all the right reasons, are passionate and love it (most of the time)

They just want to be recognised for doing an essential job that not everyone is cut out for (as you point out).

The strikes are as much about excessive workload as pay - they are negotiating on both points. I think most teachers would prefer the first point dealt with over pay tbh.

@noblegiraffe I guess what I'm saying is it would be really refreshing to one day come on here and see a teacher extolling the virtues of the profession....