Does anyone NOT support teachers’ strikes?

[Notbeinggoadybut]

I’ve got mixed views. Support that they, as all public sector workers, need a pay rise. And schools need more funding (but the NEU hasn’t badged this as a public reason which is a mistake IMP).

But 12% is a lot when you’re on a £40k salary. The TA’s deserve 12%, the nurses and ambulance drivers with dire conditions and worse salaries deserve 12%. But not from a starting salary of £40k.

Also public services can be dire. I work in one, it can be bordering on a joke and in so many ways such a waste of money. I will be striking on the 1st of February. But I don’t think it’s right - I voted against the strike. I want a pay rise, but don’t feel like it’s right to ask for 10% and strike if I don’t get it.

The award for most passive aggressive commentator tonight goes to @MrWhippersnapper 😂

I wonder if there's a difference in Scotland, the teachers at our primary are the lowest paid in all of the counties, we chatted about it after a parent council meeting

Thank you !

@MrsHamlet exactly!
So you decided to do it and the pay and conditions were fine .
So do it!

None of the teachers on here have mentioned the 27% pension they receive on top of their salary.
Even a £27k starting salary is £34k with the pension contribution. Plus most teachers go up a pay band each year post qualifying.

I agree with PP, if teachers were striking due to working conditions I'd support them, but demanding a 10%+ pay increase when everyone is struggling financially is a joke. There are are more deserving sectors receiving far less.

Every time I consider staying in teaching, I just come to one to one of these threads and remind myself of how much the general public hate us and how suicidal my job makes me feel. Can't wait to leave.

Your link states that private sector pay has overtaken that of public sector workers so I don’t understand your point. I started work as a civil servant in 1976 and had to accept that my pay was lower than that of a comparable job in the private sector in return for a better pension. Over the years that pension has been subject to reform, and for over 20 years the final salary scheme has been closed to new entrants. There is a perception that public sector pensions are gold plated - maybe for senior executives, but certainly not for the rank and file.

@emotionalmotionsicknesss it's not possible under any system, that's my point. We have an ageing population & our economic has had a productivity issue for years. Life is only going to get more expensive & taxes will keep going up by stealth. They are looking at bringing forward the increased pension age, we really are in the shit unfortunately. Far too many workers aren't paid enough & there aren't enough workers.

They’re not typically earning 40k!! Don’t know where you’ve got that figure from 😂 I think they do deserve a decent pay rise yes. As do all public sector staff imo. Just because one industry isn’t getting a pay rise doesn’t mean another shouldn’t. And anyway public sector is not private business and their pay should be fair, comfortable and inline with inflation. Why on earth wouldn’t you want a public sector where workers (made up of the public!!) are paid a fair, decent salary. x

Everyone is getting a different job. Everyone. In my cohort, there were over 70 of us who started the course. 4 are still teaching. 4. That’s for secondary science. DH teaches physics and maths, he’s the only physics teacher left from his cohort - and he’s leaving. In my department from my training school, only one person hasn’t left teaching. In my department where I worked as a qualified teacher, no one had a science degree and only one member of staff is still teaching. We have an insane shortage of teachers because everyone said “if you don’t like it then leave” so we all left. DH is teaching maths in the gym to classes of 90 kids at once because we have no teachers.

Most teachers aren't on 40k unless they've been in the profession for some time (6 years) or take on more seniority. Teachers start at 28k which for the hours we work is appalling. Yes TAs, nursery's nurses, kitchen staff, cleaners etc also deserve a pay rise and I fully support them, but please don't be blind sighted into thinking all teachers earn 40k+.

I was answering the OPs question, not asking for your personal stance

No. All public sector workers deserve fair pay and conditions. If you don't see why then you are part of the problem

RTFT and you won’t look silly spouting rumours and half-truths and bollocks that’s already been debunked.

I’d really like to bin off this “vocation” crap. It justifies treating people who do the jobs like crap, never giving them proper financial reward. Mostly because it engenders a really nasty sense of entitlement in the general public, who howl in outrage every time those called to serve try to actually get decent pay and conditions. It’s either “you striking hurts my kids” or “you striking risks my man’s life”. Oddly, when nurses and teachers are being abused in the classroom, those same complainers don’t give a shiny shit. Because it’s a vocation. People are called to do it and have to put up with anything, as long as the general public aren’t inconvenienced.

My solidarity is with teachers. The way many parents behave, they don’t know how lucky they are that anyone wants to teach their children.

That's the whole point! People are not doing it. Not enough people train and those that quality are not retained. Who would you like to teach the nation's children ?

@Lovelysausagedogscrumpy yes it has recently but you were talking historically?

"And without any regard to the fact that historically, public sector workers like civil servants agreed to lower pay in return for better pensions."

Did I interpret the above wrong?

I am doing it. Where did I say I wasn't?

Why should the fact that I love it mean I can't also say "but this is shit"?

When I started teaching, the pay and conditions were fine. They no longer are.

We are entitled to withdraw our labour in protest at our pay. It's about far more than that, but that's the legal basis.

Become a teacher. There are huge numbers of vacancies.

Maybe you should wonder with all those vacancies, who is actually teaching your child?

And the answer is: any warm body. If you're complaining about a shit teacher - yeah, who will the school replace them with? There isn't a good teacher waiting in the wings for the opportunity.

If you don't think teachers 'deserve' a pay rise, then you are supporting things getting even shitter in education, which is an odd thing to support.

This.

I’m a teacher supporting the strikes because I don’t want to loose my TAs. Our current small pay rise is not funded by the government. Schools will be forced to find savings somewhere and my fear is we will loose support staff. Personally I don’t want to work without TAs available for at least some support. We aren’t allowed to strike for this reason though.

Obviously, there are lots of other impacts of underfunding education too that have a huge impact on children and young people and these are having an impact now.

That said pay is an important issue for more experienced staff. As they haven’t had a pay rise for so many years they have had a pay cut in real terms due to inflation. Once you get to the top of the pay scale you can’t earn any more. Not everyone can progress to management as we need teachers. Experience is just not valued at all, but at the same time university trainee numbers are falling.

There are so many issues teachers are striking for - it is not simply a pay issue. But that is the banner it has to come under legally and the media love to exploit that headline.

"Teachers have had to adapt to being not just 'teachers'. My job was to teach a subject I loved...but over the years I've become a therapist, a childminder, a protection officer; I prepare students for interviews, I perform outreach projects....shall I do your job and also parent?"

I think is the key. The whole country is going to shit. The cost of living crisis, the poor mental health facilities, and various other issues, are affecting our children.
Poorly staffed Social Services, Police forces etc mean teachers have to deal with more and more.
The teachers want fair pay for what they do. (I'm not a teacher but I support their strike.)

Exactly this.

and? Because nurses start on less teachers should shut up - nurses are ALSO striking for better pay - you know people in KFC earn less? Bloody nurses should think about that eh?

It's not a race to the bottom - thank fuck

And that’s why everyone is leaving. That’s the point. When your DC have their school closed because there are no staff (which has actually happened) then remember who advised all the teachers to leave 😂

Do you realise that one of the major issues is that the government are NOT FUNDING any of the teacher payrises, so 85% of schools have been plunged into deficit this year which means redundancies and less staff to support children. It is not just about the pay in teachers’ pockets, although that affects the children too.

Honestly, I’d love for you to do a day in a teacher’s shoes, the amount of pressure is insane, I promise you’d never question £40k then.

ps. it takes the best part of a decade to reach a £40k salary in teaching.