Does anyone NOT support teachers’ strikes?

[Notbeinggoadybut]

I’ve got mixed views. Support that they, as all public sector workers, need a pay rise. And schools need more funding (but the NEU hasn’t badged this as a public reason which is a mistake IMP).

But 12% is a lot when you’re on a £40k salary. The TA’s deserve 12%, the nurses and ambulance drivers with dire conditions and worse salaries deserve 12%. But not from a starting salary of £40k.

Also public services can be dire. I work in one, it can be bordering on a joke and in so many ways such a waste of money. I will be striking on the 1st of February. But I don’t think it’s right - I voted against the strike. I want a pay rise, but don’t feel like it’s right to ask for 10% and strike if I don’t get it.

Parents who are saying they don't support the strikes:

When your child is inevitably left without a teacher, as many children currently are, what will you do then?

Honestly I really don’t get this short term thinking. Your children WILL suffer LONG TERM if this situation is allowed to continue. Graduates do not want to teach filled places are at an all time low. ECT teachers leaving in their first few years as they realise it’s tough in schools. Experienced teachers are leaving in their droves.

What is your solution to this? It seems to be that teachers just put up with it?

@Philomenafoggy

So you are happy to have the quality of your child’s education reduced so you don’t have to be inconvenienced for a few days?

The fact is that schools across the country are having to reduce their opening hours because of staff shortages. Imagine how inconvenient it is going to be when your children’s school starts closing half day every Friday because of staff shortages. This is now a reality for some parents. And who can we blame for that?

If this is stressful to you then write to your MP and complain about it. Perhaps then they might listen.

But children are already at a disadvantage and it’s only going to get worse.

Constant supply rather than consistency. No new staff to replace the ones leaving. Terrible behaviour from children. Demoralised teaching staff.

A few days off isn’t really the issue.

I work in the NHS so I'm fully aware of the acute problems with providing a public service. I don't think ex-dp having to lose £10000 is an inconvenience.
Step out of the box and don't assume everyone is a corporate or min-wage employee.
All sectors post covid are struggling either fiscally or with providing a service.

When do you think I have time to write to my MP? Rather odd suggestion.

Teacher going from £28k to just over £31k seems entirely reasonable to me.

Fully support them.

The next generation will be taught by AI if they don't sort the salary out.

@Philomenafoggy

So you are happy to have your child’s education put at risk then?

Oddly enough, I completely understand the inconvenience because I am also a parent and I’m not in the striking union. So I’ll be at work both days with a child who is at home. And I my DP has had to cancel a business trip to accommodate this- in which his business will lose money.

But I support the strikes because DD has not had a full time teacher since reception. And I work at the school she will eventually go to for Secondary and I know we have had a full time Physics teacher for the last three years because we can’t find one. I also know that we still have five posts unfilled for next year because we had no responses to repeated advertising. The staff just aren’t out there.

So I prioritise my DD’s education over a few days lost income. Because it is cheaper than having to send her to private school to find somewhere that is fully staffed.

Write to your MP or don’t. It takes ten minutes. Their email addresses are freely available online. But don’t kid yourself that teachers are responsible for your predicament. The government has had a decade to get this sorted. They have been warned over and over about what was coming and chose to ignore it.

The problem is your dismissive tone and lack of engagement in how the parents feel and the inconvenience is why some parents do not support teachers.

@Philomenafoggy, I don't think @Boudicasbeard was dismissive at all. She said she understands because it's inconvenient for her too.

I do feel for parents. Of course I do! We don't live in a teacher-only bubble. My sister is really struggling to manage her children with the strikes. It's really, really hard .

But by blaming the teachers, you are putting the blame in the wrong place.

These latest strikes (next week's) are about one, small issue. The Education Secretary has refused to talk to the Unions, refused to announce next year's pay, refused to tell Head Teachers what they're budgets will look like. How do we persuade her to talk to us? What else can we do? Do you have any suggestions, because I really want to hear them.

I have had 2 SENCOs in different schools in tears this week because they are laying off TAs at this point of the term. They are struggling to work out how to support their SEN children without that staffing - and they have 3 weeks to work it out. Heads have had to assume that they will have to pay out of their budgets and are cutting their cloth accordingly.

If it gets to September and Keegan announces any funding to cover pay, it will be too late to undo the huge cuts schools are already having to make.

ALL she needs to do at this point is sit down and have a conversation.

Be angry with HER.

Of course it is. The employers, fueled by a largely right wing, sympathetic and anti-union media, are laying the entirety of the blame at the door of the workers. And of course people are willing to go with that narrative, because the strikes are causing inconvenience. Strikes are designed to disrupt - what other last-resort bargaining tools are available? - therefore it's easy to deflect attention from the very real issues people who work in that sector on a daily basis are having to negotiate, and have long been at breaking point in doing so.

You pay professionals, properly, or you lose them. This is, after all, the stock excuse constantly trotted out in justification for massive Vice Chancellor salaries in the HE sector when comparing them to 'industry standard'.

It will cause short-term inconvenience, but schools are there to educate, not to provide childcare. This profession is haemorrhaging teachers, it can't attract new ones to a system creaking at the seams, and children's education can, will and is suffering as a consequence. The reason there's a recruitment crisis is employer conditions. And this is thanks to over a decade of underinvestment - the money top-up coming from localized activities organized by PTAs, coupled with real-term pay cuts.

I support the strikes and the UK education system, which at present is going to the dogs in pretty much every sector (barring, of course, the private ones).

@Philomenafoggy

Without getting personal- do you not think your characterisation of the teacher’s strikes and issues in school is at all dismissive?

I am sorry that parents are having to rearrange their day. But teachers are parents too and some of us have to be in school that day as well. We have the same issues. We are not some weird set of people without friends, families, problems and needs. We’re the same as you.

As I have said before, you are blaming the wrong people for your predicament. As sympathetic as teachers might be to the people who believe them to be greedy whingers, it is not our fault that things have come to this. We have asked and asked about recruitment and warned of the consequences. If you want to blame someone then blame the government. The saw this coming and did nothing because they were relying on parent blaming staff for trying to protect the future of the education system.

When do you think I have time to write to my MP? Rather odd suggestion.

If you have time to write posts on MN then you have time to write to your MP.

This website does all the hard work, you just need to type in what you want to say:

https://www.writetothem.com/

In the future, history students will be doing online modules marked by unqualified teenagers all about how, in the past, there was a time when healthcare was free to all at the point of delivery and state education was free and staffed by well-educated professionals.

If we keep going down this road, we will end up with a hugely unjust health insurance system like the US and a similar education system where those who can pay get a good deal and those who can't get a sub-standard babysitting service. Social mobility ground to a crashing halt and inequality wider than ever.

And they will turn to their grandparents and ask why they didn't fight tooth and nail to keep those services going. Why they didn't riot on the streets. I wouldn't blame them for never forgiving this apathetic generation.

Why? They will ask...

Well, the Government blamed the teachers and the nurses. The media painted them as entitled whingers and the public didn't want a few days inconvenience and turned on the workers too. Then shrugged that 'everyone has it bad' and voted Tory again.

We say no. It's not happening. This is supposed to be a democracy and no one wants a country like that - apart from this Government. This isn't being done accidentally, or because there is no option. It is a political and ideological decision. Through and through.

There seems to be a substantial voice clearly blaming the government.
The politicization of education will win no favour with the general public.
Time and the fact I'm not going to write to my MP over anything, I don't want to. Maybe our family is lucky, both schools have been brilliant, and both children are happy, the education they receive is first class.
However, the incessant communication from the schools is irritating. I know that both times ex-dp has had to deal with the head of yr he's found him to be a bit of a twit (Thats the mild description).

There seems to be a substantial voice clearly blaming the government.
The politicization of education will win no favour with the general public.

Who do you think is in charge of education?

Is it those nasty Tories by any chance?
It's strange that some pupils are excelling in these same schools despite the problems yet some aren't I wonder why that is?

Can anyone tell me the cost of using external providers for example during drop-down days for example?

Is it those nasty Tories by any chance?

The government are in charge of education, therefore when the education system is going to shit and we’re rapidly running out of teachers, who else should we be holding responsible? Where does the buck actually stop, in your opinion?

It's strange that some pupils are excelling in these same schools despite the problems yet some aren't I wonder why that is?

700,000 children are currently attending schools that have major structural defects and there’s a high risk of injury or death, according to the National Audit Office. Are you saying that the government must actually be doing a good job because there are some kids who aren’t at risk of their school collapsing on them?

It's strange that some pupils are excelling in these same schools despite the problems yet some aren't I wonder why that is?

This is a strange comment. There are plenty of children who would excel in almost any circumstances because they are bright, motivated and have parents who support their learning.

This is fine if you want only those children to succeed and screw the rest.

'Incessant communication' and a twit of a head of year are really not nationwide education issues, are they? Schools can't win there anyway, some would complain if there was less communication.

I'm just not sure you're really grasping the issues here.

Despite propaganda to the contrary, teachers are not all lefties, but it is incredibly difficult to teach for any length of time under a Tory government and not come to realise that they seem to despise us, don't seem to care about state education and want to take away with one hand while beating us with a stick with the other. I've taught under Labour and Conservative and it's like night and day. So it's not a massive surprise if teachers complain about the horrible Tories.

Can anyone tell me the cost of using external providers for example during drop-down days for example?

I am not sure what you mean by this.

CPD in schools by external providers is very, very rare these days and that is a huge shame. When I started we would have really inspiring training days with experts talking about the latest ideas in pedagogy. We had some stunning training on different techniques to teach writing from Pie Corbett, for instance. This just doesn't happen anymore.

CPD tends to be in-house or provided by people like me and my colleagues in SEN services in Local Authorities. We provide it for free.

What is your point? Do you think schools are wasting money on...keeping teachers up to date and well trained?!

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/schools-need-extra-2-2bn-a-year-to-avoid-serious-risks-of-building-failure

The independent public spending watchdog estimates that around 700,000 children in England attend schools ‘requiring major rebuilding or refurbishment’.
Moreover, the DfE has assessed the possibility of a building collapse or failure causing death or injury as ‘critical and very likely’ since summer 2021, the NAO found

Not there are currently 700,000 pupils in danger from building collapse.

Good luck with finding contractors and the workforce to manage those new schools that need building. I'm not in disagreement with the need for new schools. Just remember the government has been involved in an international fight against a virus during the time periods mentioned, along with a protracted bicker about the EU vote.

I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't support them. But I can't support all of them - it feels like everyone is striking: train, ambulance, nurses, consultants, teachers, some of them asking for big %'s that just can't be afforded. Plus private companies aren't paying such %'s.

The eldest is currently participating in a drop-down day today.
I asked the school what's app group to explain this. The school responded with.
'External providers come into school to deliver sessions alongside key members of school staff, this is focusing on PHSCE and RSE'.

Not least, who the hell else would be politicizing it? Teachers are sick of successive governments' interference with their profession: consider what that's led to.

An improvement in educational standards? Respond in the affirmative to that, and I'll know you're joking!

The eldest is currently participating in a drop-down day today.
I asked the school what's app group to explain this. The school responded with.
External providers come into school to deliver sessions alongside key members of school staff, this is focusing on PHSCE and RSE'.

This is necessary because the guidance (from the Government) has changed regarding these subjects. The training needs updating. This may well be free training depending on who the external providers are. Even if they have paid, it is important update training, so necessary.

This is what happens when curriculum updates happen - teachers need to learn what the new requirements are. This is what inset days were invented for.

I still don't really get what your point is. Are you saying that schools spending on these things is some way unreasonable?

The massive gulf between private and public sector pay rises over the last 13 years has been very well publicised. There is a reason why so many are striking and it's not because we're all a bunch of entitled money-grabbers. It's not really that difficult to work out why.