Does anyone NOT support teachers’ strikes?

[Notbeinggoadybut]

I’ve got mixed views. Support that they, as all public sector workers, need a pay rise. And schools need more funding (but the NEU hasn’t badged this as a public reason which is a mistake IMP).

But 12% is a lot when you’re on a £40k salary. The TA’s deserve 12%, the nurses and ambulance drivers with dire conditions and worse salaries deserve 12%. But not from a starting salary of £40k.

Also public services can be dire. I work in one, it can be bordering on a joke and in so many ways such a waste of money. I will be striking on the 1st of February. But I don’t think it’s right - I voted against the strike. I want a pay rise, but don’t feel like it’s right to ask for 10% and strike if I don’t get it.

@Basilthymerosemary isn’t that only independent schools who are leaving tps as it’s unaffordable… kind of illustrating how costly and what a benefit it is?

@Saz12

I have a PhD. I have numerous qualifications just to do with teaching on top (PGCE, QTS, PGCSEL, DSL. I'm a member of a chartered body.

Please tell me how many more qualifications you have?

Yes it is a benefit (and it was very good- not debating that) but lots of teachers (independent school) also do not have TPS, and it's very much a myth (at least when I was still working) that our pay was significantly higher.

@Basilthymerosemary so all state sector teachers (ie those who are striking) do indeed receive shy of 24% employer contribution to their pension. Independent obviously you are not a public sector employee.

It’s not just state schools.

St Augustine’s Priory in Ealing is on the verge of major strike action to defend their terms and conditions

The problem with employer pension contributions is that you can't use them to pay for your food shop, rent or mortgage which may be a rather more pressing concern for people right now.

And many teachers have opted out of the pension because of that

@noblegiraffe yes, I see that. I also understand that the way the pension fund is ‘held’ is different to other sectors too, making it easier for the government to promise pension payments tomorrow compared to salary increases today. It’s not irrelevant to the debate though; every sector makes industry comparisons based on total reward package of which salary AND pension are a part. 24% is a significant sum compared to other sectors.

It’s not irrelevant to the debate though; every sector makes industry comparisons based on total reward package of which salary AND pension are a part

Sectors can make comparisons all they like but if record numbers of your staff up and quit and you recruit less than 50% of your target needed to replace them, there's a problem.

@noblegiraffe i think pensions are poorly understood and undervalued. I’d say the answer is to offer more flexibility in how total reward is offered by presenting an envelope, however, given the model of the tps, I’m not sure whether that is feasible. This is what has happened in my private sector industry where the employer contribution is good but no where near the tps and where younger employees were unable to afford a house deposit and now, as per rest of the country, are absorbing cost of living increases.

Tbh messing around with pensions is likely to cause even more people to leave.

What teachers really need is to be paid more for less work.

I think they are very well paid for what they do. But always grumbling about pay and how hard they work and how hard done by they are. It gets a bit tedious.

That 24% employer contribution is a bit meaningless though, it's not invested for current teachers in stocks and shares like most private sector company pension funds. That 24%, and whatever % is paid by members, goes to the TPS to pay current retirees. And there's lots of those, with very generous final salary pension, hence the need for hefty employer contributions. But current teachers are largely no longer have those generous final salary pensions, the TPS was reformed, in I think, 2015, to a career average scheme. Yes it's still good, but it's not as good as it was, and the government could change the terms for current and new teachers again, just as they did 8 or so years ago. They likely will as the ratio of retirees to teachers continues to increase. I think continually referring to this 24% employer contribution is really misleading, as that money isn't sitting in a pension fund, growing with the stock market, to pay current teachers their future pension. It's going straight out to pay the pensions of retired teachers.

How would you suggest the recruitment and retention crisis is solved then? When a private company can't recruit staff, or keep the staff they currently have, what happens?

Ever thought there might be a reason for all that grumbling ?

One of our senior leaders told me the other day that a timetable change had to be made to our current Y7 this year as, otherwise, half the year group (approx. 120 kids) would have ended up with a full day of cover once a week. That's 5 lessons in one day not taught by qualified staff, in addition to tutor time, which is already permanent cover for Y7. Because we cannot recruit enough staff. In an (on paper) good school.

But yeah, we're not in crisis.

I do not support the strikes. I taught for more than 15 years. The salary is fair and the pension is amazing.
I now work for a teacher training provider. Pay is the same a UPS 3, holidays are much shorter and pension is tiny.

By the way, I didn't quit because the job was bad, I've had five years out to have children. This is the first job I applied for afterwards.

Why didn't you apply to be a teacher again? It's not like there's a shortage of jobs!

Why not go back if it’s so good ?

I've had five years out to have children.

Then your experience is SO out of date it’s not even funny.

The entire system has crashed into a wall post-covid.

Well they either get better conditions or there will continue to be even less of them and of a lesser standard

All teachers I know are saying that recruitment and retention is dire with class sizes being double due to shortages

We have classes who have had cover teachers in Science all year. We've not managed to recruit for that post for next September either.

@Hayliebells I already noted the non-conventional arrangement for paying out on tps. It is essentially underwritten by the government which is, arguably, more robust than pensions that rely on stocks and shares. It is a defined benefit scheme based on career average which is generally accepted to be an excellent offering. A defined benefit final salary scheme is better but these are rare in any sector now. Whilst the government can change the scheme prospectively, they can’t do this retrospectively. Were it to change, your contributions to date would remain as per conditions when made. Your contributions going forward would be as per any new conditions. As I say, you may personally value salary over pension, and I understand that view, however it’s not misleading to refer to a contribution of 24% - that money is there for contributors.

@noblegiraffe I work with classroom teachers on a daily basis.
I am just saying that pay is fine, holidays are great and there's no comparison with pensions.

@MrWhippersnapper the State system is too left wing for me,. I'm afraid.